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Ex-Apple VP Mike Abbott Joins General Motors as Exec Vice President, Software

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Re: Ex-Apple VP Mike Abbott Joins General Motors as Exec Vice President, Software

#181
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What date are you using as the start of the emissions safety era? A base price 1995 Ford Contour was $13805–$16190 [1]. ABS was an upgrade option on that car. A 2023 Nissan Versa is $15730 [2] Even the cheapest cars from 1975 cost the equivalent of $17000 in today's dollars [3] 1. https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15143064/1995-10best-... 2. https://magazine.northeast.aaa.com/daily/life/cars-trucks/ch... . 3. ht…

I was thinking of a 1970 Dodge Dart, which last I checked was $21,000 in 2021 dollars; compared to the price of an average new car today ~42K. That today's average car might have more features is true; but for many of these features, you're not allowed to forego them in favor of a new, decontented, cheaper car.

> I was thinking of a 1970 Dodge Dart, which last I checked was $21,000 in 2021 dollars; compared to the price of an average new car today ~42K.

That's an invalid comparison, because 42k is the average new car transaction price (ATP), not the average MSRP, which is what your 1970 Dodge Dart is: an MSRP.

The ATP is heavily weighted toward the fact that most new cars purchased are larger SUVs and higher end cars, and also lately influenced by heavy dealer markups due to the pandemic supply/demand imbalance for cars in general.

That doesn't mean more economical cars the equivalent of the 1970 Dart aren't available today, and they are even cheaper than the Dart, i.e. the 2023 Nissan Versa at $17k. There are several other similarly cheap cars, just search "cheapest new cars 2023".

Re: Ex-Apple VP Mike Abbott Joins General Motors as Exec Vice President, Software

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was thinking of a 1970 Dodge Dart, which last I checked was $21,000 in 2021 dollars; compared to the price of an average new car today ~42K. A more relevant comparison would be the $3452 average new car price in 1970 against today, which is $27,704 in today's dollars. > That today's average car might have more features is true; but for many of these features, you're not allowed to forego them in favor of a new, d…

I could also admit that in 1970, there were even cheaper cars than a Dodge Dart, but I'm excluding them b/c at the time, they were still a sort of novelty...the Dart, being "compact" only with respect to American cars of the period, is sufficiently large such that it doesn't register as a different category. As for modern small SUVs...you're still not going to get much change back from your $27K for a VW Taos, or Maz…

> I could also admit that in 1970, there were even cheaper cars than a Dodge Dart, but I'm excluding them b/c at the time, they were still a sort of novelty..

The cheapest car I can find from 1972 was $2131 or $15k in today's dollars [1]. That's pretty close to the cheapest car today, the Nissan Versa at $16K.

There was no time when cars were significantly cheaper (inflation adjusted) than they are today.

The Model T would have cost $27000 in today's dollars. And in almost every other year in car history, cars have on average been more expensive than that [2].

1. https://blog.consumerguide.com/6-cheapest-american-cars-1972...

2. https://blog.cheapism.com/average-car-price-by-year/

Re: Ex-Apple VP Mike Abbott Joins General Motors as Exec Vice President, Software

#183
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could also admit that in 1970, there were even cheaper cars than a Dodge Dart, but I'm excluding them b/c at the time, they were still a sort of novelty...the Dart, being "compact" only with respect to American cars of the period, is sufficiently large such that it doesn't register as a different category. As for modern small SUVs...you're still not going to get much change back from your $27K for a VW Taos, or Maz…

> I could also admit that in 1970, there were even cheaper cars than a Dodge Dart, but I'm excluding them b/c at the time, they were still a sort of novelty.. The cheapest car I can find from 1972 was $2131 or $15k in today's dollars [1]. That's pretty close to the cheapest car today, the Nissan Versa at $16K. There was no time when cars were significantly cheaper (inflation adjusted) than they are today. The Model T…

You could get a Honda 600 in 1970 for $1200. Again, that's pretty far into the "novelty" category, so I don't count it.

I should have qualified what I said-a car the size of a Dodge Dart in 1970 is now twice as expensive.

Re: Ex-Apple VP Mike Abbott Joins General Motors as Exec Vice President, Software

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My 89 Cherokee was like this but since 2010 they're just all complete junk.

Those late 80s and 90s Cherokees lasted a long time, I still see them around town. Most of the survivors have that great inline 6 that was a carryover from the AMC days.

The motor was great, everything attached to it though not so much.

Re: Ex-Apple VP Mike Abbott Joins General Motors as Exec Vice President, Software

#185
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I could also admit that in 1970, there were even cheaper cars than a Dodge Dart, but I'm excluding them b/c at the time, they were still a sort of novelty.. The cheapest car I can find from 1972 was $2131 or $15k in today's dollars [1]. That's pretty close to the cheapest car today, the Nissan Versa at $16K. There was no time when cars were significantly cheaper (inflation adjusted) than they are today. The Model T…

You could get a Honda 600 in 1970 for $1200. Again, that's pretty far into the "novelty" category, so I don't count it. I should have qualified what I said-a car the size of a Dodge Dart in 1970 is now twice as expensive.

> I should have qualified what I said-a car the size of a Dodge Dart in 1970 is now twice as expensive.

I don't understand what information you using to draw that conclusion.

A 2023 Nissan Sentra ($20k) dimensions:

183″ L x 72″ W x 57″ H.

The 1970 Dart ($21k in today's dollars) dimensions:

196" L x 72" W x 54" H.

And a good chunk of that extra length is the huge engine in the Dart and the resulting long hood, so it actually probably had equivalent or less passenger space.

The Nissan also has the full raft of safety/convenience features that you said should make it more expensive than the 1970 Dart: ABS, airbags, TPMS, AndroidAuto/Carplay, cruise control, collision detection, auto-braking for pedestrians, driver alertness monitoring, lane departure warning, etc etc etc. Yet it's still cheaper in real dollars than the Dart was.

Re: Ex-Apple VP Mike Abbott Joins General Motors as Exec Vice President, Software

#186
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could get a Honda 600 in 1970 for $1200. Again, that's pretty far into the "novelty" category, so I don't count it. I should have qualified what I said-a car the size of a Dodge Dart in 1970 is now twice as expensive.

> I should have qualified what I said-a car the size of a Dodge Dart in 1970 is now twice as expensive. I don't understand what information you using to draw that conclusion. A 2023 Nissan Sentra ($20k) dimensions: 183″ L x 72″ W x 57″ H. The 1970 Dart ($21k in today's dollars) dimensions: 196" L x 72" W x 54" H. And a good chunk of that extra length is the huge engine in the Dart and the resulting long hood, so it a…

Hm. My memory must be going; I remember the Dart being much larger. And you're right; I'm certain that modern FWD compacts probably do use interior room better.

Re: Ex-Apple VP Mike Abbott Joins General Motors as Exec Vice President, Software

#187
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I should have qualified what I said-a car the size of a Dodge Dart in 1970 is now twice as expensive. I don't understand what information you using to draw that conclusion. A 2023 Nissan Sentra ($20k) dimensions: 183″ L x 72″ W x 57″ H. The 1970 Dart ($21k in today's dollars) dimensions: 196" L x 72" W x 54" H. And a good chunk of that extra length is the huge engine in the Dart and the resulting long hood, so it a…

Hm. My memory must be going; I remember the Dart being much larger. And you're right; I'm certain that modern FWD compacts probably do use interior room better.

The Dart certainly looks more hefty than modern cars from a design perspective. And I'll also readily admit that the cars that most people want - big cars - have gotten very pricey, especially since the pandemic.
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