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US could soon approve MDMA therapy

nature.com

181–190 of 406 posts

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#181

As an outsider, that American obsession with prescripted medication seems maddening. Many of these conditions are caused by underlying societal factors and are nowhere near as widespread outside the US. The American solution is to throw more pills at the problem, or ostracise the patients not willing to take that route. Even children are offered an ever larger number of pills, and are constantly challenged about thei…

The societal factors you mention are due to - unfortunately - freedom.

Humans are innately horrible.

Freedom also means freedom to be horrible.

Unfortunately.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not my experience. You can have someone with cancer openly talk about it, but any psychological issue is treated like it's your own personal fault.

"Europe" is many very different countries.

Having been born in Europe and having lived in 9 different countries across the whole continent - my experiences have been largely similar.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#183

I'd imagine pharmaceutical interests in the USA in the mental illness treatment & maintenance field are depressed by this news - it's going to crush their profit model if successful: > "And it’s unclear whether approving MDMA on the basis of MAPS’s data would ease the way for other companies hoping to study and develop the drug, or whether anyone would even want to. MDMA has been around since 1912 and cannot be paten…

I don't think it's going to replace ADHD medication whatsoever. How would that even work?

By fixing the underlying conditions that lead to the behaviour classified as ADHD rather than depending on stimulants as a(n admittedly very effective) crutch to power through them.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#184
post #157
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Antidepressants and adderall are very different beasts

Yeah, antidepressants are way more complicated, they have more side effects, and have to be monitored carefully to not make the underlying issues that caused the patient to take them worse. Suicidal thoughts plus antidepressants that give you energy can give you the motivation to go through it. And despite not being categorized as addictive you can't stop taking them without wrecking your mental health until your bod…

> While at the same time despite being a controlled substance because they're supposedly so addictive people with ADHD forget to take adderall and with normal use you don't take it every day.

This is incorrect: Normal use of stimulant medication is to take it regularly every day.

We also have evidence from studies showing that the brain adapts to consistent dosing in order to counter some of the damaging oxidative effects of amphetamine. Inconsistent dosing could undermine this adaptation and does not mirror the dosing protocol used in studies to determine long term safety. Sporadic dosing is also known to cause sensitization effects in studies, which can sensitize people to the negative side effects of a drug or exaggerate cravings.

Some people do take medication holidays as recommended by doctors, but even those should be done on a pre-determined schedule.

People get themselves into trouble when they start treating Adderall like an ad-hoc drug that they can take more or less of depending on how they feel that day or how much work they need to get done. This not only leaves the brain in a constant and unpredictable state of flux, it creates an association between “I need to do work” and “I need more Adderall”. Patients who go down this path often end up escalating doses, playing games with saving up pills to take more, or trying to talk their prescribers into extra dosages beyond what they need. It ultimately ends with higher tolerance and reduce effectiveness.

> If you don't refill your Rx of antidepressants your doctor will be notified and reach out to you because stopping has such pronounced effects.

This also isn’t true. There are many medications with withdrawal symptoms far worse than antidepressants. Some drugs can be potentially fatal if discontinued abruptly. Pharmacies don’t generally hunt down doctors when a patient doesn’t get a refill.

Antidepressant withdrawal (without taper) can be difficult for some, but so can withdrawing from Adderall. There are entire subreddits acting as support groups for people tapering down Adderall and trying to get back to feeling normal after taking Adderall for years.

Stimulants are definitely habit-forming and have a high abuse potential. Let’s not downplay it.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This past week in the US there have been several stories about people who were shot after ringing a doorbell or pulling into someone's driveway. Reducing the number of guns means that these people would not be able to enact this type of senseless violence. It would also certainly cut down on the numbers of toddlers shooting their siblings.

How do I protect my toddler from all the criminals who keep their guns? Call the police and wait 15 minutes?

If I was having my toddler threatened by criminals on a regular basis, I'd have to question my life choices.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the number of people getting shot by their toddler siblings or after ringing a doorbell make up a significant percentage of total gun violence? If not, then banning guns would be, in software terms, a premature optimization.

Why does it have to be a significant percentage of the total? It's still contributing to avoidable life-changing trauma for the people involved.

Because all laws and bans are tradeoffs. By banning something that doesn't have a significant effect you might be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

How many lives are saved and traumas avoided through people's ability to defend themselves with guns? If that number is higher than the number of toddler accidents, gun ban would effectively cause an increase in PTSD and deaths.

P.S.: just to clarify, by "significant" I mean significant in a statistical sense of not being insignificant (very close to zero, noise-level), not "majority".

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok but this isn't really true. The country with the most anti-depressant intake is Iceland , the US is around second or third place, yet the other countries in the "top ten" of antidepressant usage per capita are almost all european nations. The USA isn't an outlier, but I guess we really can't escape the "do americans really, really do X?" even when it is trivially easy to verify. The funny thing is that the reason…

Iceland and the Scandinavian countries have, let's say, "weather-related" reasons for their depressions. They are introvert societies with the highest percentage of single-person households. The reason for the US being close to them could be the high prescription culture and the social aggression inherent in everyday US life, masked behind curteous words, customer-oriented interaction and polished looks.

OK but I don't think chalking it up to 'weather-related reason' is entirely accurate either. That may make up a portion of it [1] but it doesn't make up all of it [2]. And I agree that the US has a high prescription culture, but you could argue too that this is an artifact of having an exceptional health care system by most metrics. Mental health disorders are complex with a multitude of causes and it's rather reductive to say that they're due to "the social aggression inherent in US life".

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4258674/ [2] https://blogs.worldbank.org/endpovertyinsouthasia/stressed-a...

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only recreational. I've taken MDMA many times in my life and -- presumably like most people who have -- can see why it's got therapeutic potential. Honestly though, I'm not convinced about it in a clinical setting, unless there's a particularly severe issue that needs addressing. I reckon most people are best off just buying some, getting together with a couple of very good mates on a nice day, rolling out into the c…

What a strange idea is to recommend a dose with respect to neither a weight nor a desired effect

OK, fair point. In my head it was a fairly big tilde.

I don't think it's a terrible start, but yes, of course, YMMV and one should never go doing such things without a bit of reading about.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This past week in the US there have been several stories about people who were shot after ringing a doorbell or pulling into someone's driveway. Reducing the number of guns means that these people would not be able to enact this type of senseless violence. It would also certainly cut down on the numbers of toddlers shooting their siblings.

Way more people are run down by cars while crossing the street, but the media has decided to get hysterical over a blue moon.

Top two causes of under-18 death in the US are guns and cars.

Re: US could soon approve MDMA therapy

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see a few issues with your argument. Just because something has underlying social factors doesn't mean that it shouldn't also be treated with drugs and therapy. The latest wave of psychedelic research is not simply pushing a prescription drug; all of the research on MDMA, psilocybin, etc. is finding that these drugs work within a clinical setting paired with therapy. Also, I wasn't able to find a source saying that…

There's something about American culture that facilitates various psychological conditions. The aggressive, over-expressive, utilitarian individualism, the inability to just stay calm and quiet and think in solitude, the emphasis on material wealth and well-being and looking "sexy", the social warriorism and activism on the same issues.

Where are you getting this from? Movies?
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