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Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

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Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#181

Post by hutzlibu »

gbN025tt2Z1E2E4 wrote: post #167
hutzlibu wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So do you believe gay people for example, are a threat to a healthy and balanced society? edit: Oh and conservative culture in my land means mostly lots of alcohol. The first time I vomitted from alcohol was as a teenager on a catholic wine fest, by wine gifted to us from the church. There might be conservatives, that are free from drugs, but mostly they just like other drugs. Drugs are a big problem in todays societ…

Well, it's a simple equation from a societal health perspective. As things are currently, society is well below the minimum and ideal birth replacement rates (scarily low in fact). So from that perspective, promotion of homosexuality runs directly counter to what is best for society as a whole versus what is currently seen as best for any one individual.

It is a bit telling, that you perceive it as "promoting of homosexuality". I am not gay and I don't see anything like it. What I see, is promoting of a idea, that people are free to live their (consented) sexuality, whatever that might be, instead of forcing them to live an unhappy life not fitting to them. That is not really good, if you want stable people. And without stable people you won't have a stable society.

And about birth rates in general, that is a way longer debate. I would start with world population and limited ressources, but rather leave it at that.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#182

Post by bmj »

zirgs wrote: post #161
bmj wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there never was stronger counterculture than today I disagree. Can you expand on your claim? YouTube and TikTok are not countercultural, even if some users are using those platforms for genuine countercultural creative acts. By definition, a social media "influencer" with millions of followers is not countercultural.

A social media influencer with millions of followers can still be unknown to people outside of that bubble. My mom has no idea who PewDiePie is.

Are you suggesting that PewDiePie is countercultural?

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#183

Post by jrochkind1 »

n0tth3dro1ds wrote: post #104
barneygale wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> BLM > Endlessly supported Black people are still being murdered by police every day in America.

[flagged]

I think your argument is wrong in several ways, but even accepting it hypothetically -- equality of far too many murders by the police is not actually what anyone is looking for.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#184

Post by voldacar »

adamcharnock wrote: post #20

I'm pretty sure I've been existing in a number of counter-cultures for the last decade or two. These have been either linked to my identity or physical location, I couldn't have properly experienced them through consuming media on the subject. Certainly all required an active choice and/or lifestyle change on my part. Maybe people mean something else by counter-culture, but here are examples from my life: - Freelanci…

It's hard to call something countercultural if every major corporation pays lip service to it 24/7

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#185

Post by ploppyploppy »

drewcon wrote: post #114

I’m going to get flamed for this but at this point the closest we’re getting to counter culture is the exact opposite… “Trads”. Young people with super traditional values doing exactly the opposite of most of what you just listed. No one would seriously suggest the trendiest most mainstream supported or glorified lifestyles (van life, queerness, gig work) are counter culture…that IS the culture; there’s very little c…

[flagged]

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#186

Post by shanebellone »

seydor wrote: post #164
shanebellone wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"medium is the message" That brought back grad school memories. The Internet is an excellent example of this. We're watching -- in real-time -- the medium challenge society (at all levels and across boundaries). The Internet is still an infant; yet look at its impact.

Really? The internet looks old. A teenager in the 90s, aged fast in the 2000s, got a family in 2010s and now is seeking to police everyone through its retirement.

The medium hasn't changed. We're still on "Version 1".

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#187

Post by satao »

gbN025tt2Z1E2E4 wrote: post #172
satao wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society didn't use to be "conservative". Like, the romans and the greeks were a lot more sexually free than we are right now. What they also had in their time is conservative people, as in, people that were against the changes in the society they were living in (like accepting Christianism during the Roman Empire, etc). Being conservative can't be counter-culture because by definition it is preseving the CURRENT cult…

> Like, the romans and the greeks were a lot more sexually free than we are right now. I wouldn't recommend using collapsed civilizations as the beacon for what's good and right for a healthy and well-functioning society.

I didn’t use any adjectives to describe their society. Only commented that you can’t think that “conservatism” is always about believing in God, in monogamy, etc.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#188

Post by auctoritas »

This article misunderstands what a "culture" is. Specific activities do not constitute a culture. Niche interests within a single domain do not constitute a culture. "Interest in Marvel movies" or some other figment of pop culture is not itself a culture, not by a long shot. This is why we can speak of a "pop culture" in the first place, because we sense that many things - nominally unrelated products situated within different domains though they may be - are all related in some important way, contained within a broader popular culture that transcends any of its manifestations. Perhaps the defining mark of popular culture is that the people who consume it and participate in it tend to overlap, or resemble one another. This way of thinking means that cultures are defined more by their participants than anything else.

Culture is broad, it is cohesive, and it extends and influences across many domains. There are absolutely countercultures out there, but most people aren't aware of them given how dominant the dominant culture is, which is generally the case but especially true today.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#189

Post by lelanthran »

trabant00 wrote: post #11

> we have a counterculture — many of them, in fact — but they are systematically excluded from seeping into the mainstream I don't understand this and by extension the entire article. Counterculture is by definition outside of mainstream. It would just be culture and not anti otherwise. This sounds like semantics but then that is what I think the entire article is, and imho it is wrong.

>> they are systematically excluded from seeping into the mainstream

> I don't understand this and by extension the entire article. Counterculture is by definition outside of mainstream.

Yes, that's what they said. The danger they are going on about is how heavily it is buried so that it never seeps into mainstream.

Your not understanding is confusing to me, especially since you quoted the bit "we have a counterculture", and then replied as if they said "we have no counterculture".

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#190

Post by throwaway894345 »

viraptor wrote: post #82
n0tth3dro1ds wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>BLM >LGBT >counter culture Endlessly supported by literally every news outlet, major tech company, big 5 sports league, F1000, university, and at least half of the political class. You’re not counter to any major institution, lmao. You’re not the resistance

Changing the colour of your logo on a certain date is not really "supporting". Corps gonna corp and if changing the logo and publishing some nice post brings more money, they'll do it. (While donating to Republicans at the same time)

If the entire establishment is seeking to ally itself with your movement/culture/etc then that’s a strong indicator that your movement isn’t counter-culture or otherwise subversive. They don’t have to become True Believers IMHO.

And FWIW, lots of big companies have DEI departments that preach this stuff internally and market it externally (my wife is a marketing consultant with these big companies and they eat this shit up so much that their contracts are dependent on proving their commitment to DEI by centering their “diverse” employees, holding internal and external DEI ceremonies, etc). I’m sure there’s still a profit motive, but there’s quite a lot more than an annual profile photo update.

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