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ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

forbes.com

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Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#181

Post by jrumbut »

AbrahamParangi wrote: post #158

A bit of meta commentary but I’ve noticed in recent years a phenomenon where people will adamantly defend something because they associate attacking it with their political opponents . You see this very clearly in the conservative response to US support of Ukraine. You’d expect to see more conservative support for simultaneously defending a free people while also destroying a primary adversary for pennies on the doll…

In the early stages of both discussions that happened, but recently the party lines have been blurring a bit (especially on Ukraine).

We'll see how long it lasts but it wouldn't be the first time the presence of an external enemy eased internal tensions.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#182

Post by RobotToaster »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #172
sschueller wrote: post #69

We need a law to generally make this illegal. Uber did the same thing and Tesla hired PIs to do it.

How long will that take? Can we ban TikTok in the meantime?

>Can we ban TikTok in the meantime?

And Uber and Tesla?

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#183

Post by danrocks »

RobotToaster wrote: post #180
danrocks wrote: post #173

I often wonder what high-level American executives that work at these Chinese companies feel like, specially when news like this comes to life. Do they feel like they're just doing their job? Are they afraid of getting arrested? Do they think that the massive comp packages they get is worth the risk? Lots of cognitive dissonance going on, I would bet.

They're probably too busy being rich to care.

Well they probably are, but there is a non-zero chance they'll end up in jail for a very long time, in which case their riches won't matter much.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#184

Post by vanadium1st »

I was really pro open internet. I remember the old internet and feel nostalgia about it that probably won't ever completely fade.

I am Ukrainian, and when some years ago my government banned the most popular social network at our country - Russian-made VK, I felt strange about it. I kind of understood some of the security concerns, but didn't feel like they were enough to turn off my open internet fantasies and free-speech absolutism.

Now I totally get it and am happy that it happened sooner that later. Turns out that the security concern was as real as it gets. Russia gets info from VK to jail hundreds of people, and at least they one less weapon to use against Ukrainians.

And I have to admit that I've used VK and probably wouldn't stop doing it if my government didn't ban it. Now I am kind of hoping that they will do the same with TikTok. With all of this experience I still have no strength to quit it by myself.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#185

Post by spookie »

phpisthebest wrote: post #157
bioemerl wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Democracy" is more or less an delusion those in power perpetuate to ensure the cattle think they have a choice I had a much larger post, but I'm going to only respond to this one now, because it sums up basically off the disagreements and no further discussion is going to resolve anything. I don't agree with this sort of cynicism at all, and I very much do believe that while it is very flawed, democracy ultimately…

I understand the resistance cynicism, however your statement about democracy seems to be more faith based than any kind of data What data do you have to support the position that "democracy ultimately is still doing its job. " further what "job" do you believe democracy is doing. I can point to many data points that show it is not, the for mentioned lack of accountability. The fact that most of the voting population…

You can point out individual points of data as much as you want, the end result is what matters.

Have you seen journalists attacking a dictatorship while living there, and go unpunished? Have you seen the same, but on democratic countries?

That should answer it.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#186

Post by neilv »

danrocks wrote: post #173

I often wonder what high-level American executives that work at these Chinese companies feel like, specially when news like this comes to life. Do they feel like they're just doing their job? Are they afraid of getting arrested? Do they think that the massive comp packages they get is worth the risk? Lots of cognitive dissonance going on, I would bet.

Lots of possibilities:

* Golden handcuffs, but intending to move away once they vest.

* Actively trying to move away, but want to have a new role at that/better level lined up.

* They might've been eased into it through deception (e.g., someone raises a concern internally, they're assured that's not happening or has stopped, and only later it's in the news that it's happening anyway).

* Or, really, "tech" has pervasive ethical flexibility. Figuratively, the same kind of people who were looting pension funds in the 1980s are now selling out computer users, and they've normalized a lot of sociopathy, so the party is open to a lot more people. Normalized, it's easy to rationalize doing just a little more. Example: "Oh no, they're monitoring journalists." Which is something almost every startup Web site starts participating in, on their first day of business, when they add third-party trackers, and then often they add to that.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#187

Post by Karunamon »

phpisthebest wrote: post #157
bioemerl wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Democracy" is more or less an delusion those in power perpetuate to ensure the cattle think they have a choice I had a much larger post, but I'm going to only respond to this one now, because it sums up basically off the disagreements and no further discussion is going to resolve anything. I don't agree with this sort of cynicism at all, and I very much do believe that while it is very flawed, democracy ultimately…

I understand the resistance cynicism, however your statement about democracy seems to be more faith based than any kind of data What data do you have to support the position that "democracy ultimately is still doing its job. " further what "job" do you believe democracy is doing. I can point to many data points that show it is not, the for mentioned lack of accountability. The fact that most of the voting population…

Could you post something other than the Paige study? That one has more than enough question marks to be taking its broadest claims at face value. Example: https://www.vox.com/2016/5/9/11502464/gilens-page-oligarchy-...

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#188

Post by BlueTemplar »

bioemerl wrote: post #145
phpisthebest wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>which is why you vote regularly to ensure that your rights are represented and those agencies aren't able to abuse their power That never works out in practice as the administrative state (which includes the FBI and CIA) are soo far removed from representative government they are basically unaccountable at this point, that is with out even getting into the idea that 1 vote in a nation of 350 million plus holds no r…

> "Democracy" is more or less an delusion those in power perpetuate to ensure the cattle think they have a choice I had a much larger post, but I'm going to only respond to this one now, because it sums up basically off the disagreements and no further discussion is going to resolve anything. I don't agree with this sort of cynicism at all, and I very much do believe that while it is very flawed, democracy ultimately…

Maybe for US citizens, but not so much for everyone else since 2001, hence why the EU effectively banned US companies in 2015 : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Schrems#Schrems_I (China/TikTok is even worse of course.)

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#189

Post by iechoz6H »

bioemerl wrote: post #117
phpisthebest wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often wonder why the average american should be more concerned about China than the CIA or FBI? the FBI has the power to put me in a cage, China does not... I am confused as why china is a bigger threat to me personally than the FBI?

Depends hugely on who you are and what happens with the politics. CIA and FBI are very big threats to you, which is why you vote regularly to ensure that your rights are represented and those agencies aren't able to abuse their power. China is a much more distant and abstract, but much more serious threat. If the FBI or CIA fucks up, they will put let's say 10% of people in prison for opposition to the state. If Chin…

"Imagine a world where Russia is allowed to take Europe."

Russia can not even 'take' Ukraine the chances of it being able to take Europe are zero at this point.

Re: ByteDance confirmed it used TikTok to monitor journalists’ physical location

#190

Post by 93po »

sschueller wrote: post #69

We need a law to generally make this illegal. Uber did the same thing and Tesla hired PIs to do it.

> Tesla hired PIs to do it.

This is so far from the truth in how you're stating it and in this context.

* Tesla is only alleged as having hired PIs, and the claim came from a disgruntled former employee that was fired for cause. Let's not treat this like fact. There is zero evidence other than this person's claim.

* The alleged target of the alleged investigation was a Tesla employee, not a journalist, that was actively leaking confidential information (and admitted to doing so) with deliberate intent to harm his employer. The SEC also declined to provide the leaker with any sort of whistleblower status.

* There is no evidence Tesla used data outside what was freely accessible on company devices, which literally every large corporation on the planet monitors.

* The leaker was later successfully sued for $400,000 by Tesla and found guilty of several criminal offenses. It was also revealed (and admitted to) that his legal defense was bankrolled by The Funicular Fund, which is a known Tesla short-seller.

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