Live data from Hacker News

I am endlessly fascinated with content tagging systems

twitter.com

181–190 of 279 posts

Re: I am endlessly fascinated with content tagging systems

#181
post #82

I worked with the Wikipedia category system a few years ago, and you could see the problems with hierarchical tagging systems right in action back then. (Though it may have gotten better in the meantime) The system appeared simple: There were just two relations, "Article A is a member of category B" and "Category X is a subcategory of category Y". However, in practice, the community was using this system to represent…

Many comments below are hinting at - but not naming - triplestores. "A has relationship X with B". This is how wikidata works.

Learning about those and learning how to query wikidata just blew my mind.

Re: I am endlessly fascinated with content tagging systems

#182
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(I learned about it in librarian school) As the rest of us learned during the first tagging boom, the librarian is the natural apex predator of tagging.

I've been a librarian for more than 15 years and I can only speak from personal experience when I say that I am the apex predator of nothing. Every once and a while I will get it in my head to systematize my personal knowledge base with a controlled vocabulary and ontology and I just fall on my face. I really want it for some twisted reason, though. Turns out LC subject headings -- for all their failures -- are prett…

I've learned to accept that my personal life and knowledge management is going to be a mess. (I'm also a librarian). I just don't want to do more organizing when I get home. I do also feel the temptation to do it 'right' once in a while, but it never sticks. I'd wager a lot of it has to do with the fact that managing an ontology completely on your own just sucks.

Re: I am endlessly fascinated with content tagging systems

#183
post #125

Instagram's tagging system was actually really effective at categorizing content and discovery because each hashtag was treated as a node in a (giant) graph, where each node has multiple properties, including post count (number of posts using a tag), 'velocity' (number of posts using a particular tag per unit time), etc. I could write up a big post about it as I made a study of it in when I created a web app for find…

Please write that big post! Sounds interesting

I second this! Sounds like an interesting read! :)

Re: I am endlessly fascinated with content tagging systems

#184
One weird content tagging system I recall was Amazon's "Amapedia" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amapedia). It was a product wiki, a way for people to curate information of all sorts about Amazon products. It allowed each product to be arbitrarily tagged. It was short-lived, failed, and abandoned, for all of the reasons you'd immediately expect.

What was neat about it was that it must have involved someone a little too interested in set theory. A product was an article, and a product could have tags, but tags were themselves articles, and so tags could also have tags, and those tags could also belong to tags, etc.

The whole system was focused on these tags. If you wanted to compare two products, you'd compare the pages, and the comparison would focus on the differences in the tags of the two pages. Tags could have values, too, so products could have a "RAM" tag, and each RAM tag would have an associated value for that page, but the RAM page itself would have general information about RAM as a concept (which would probably have tags itself...). Searching worked the same way. You could search for pages with certain tags or tags whose values were greater/less/equal to whatever values.

Anyway, it was a fun and interesting way to do content tagging that did not work out.

Re: I am endlessly fascinated with content tagging systems

#186
post #82

I worked with the Wikipedia category system a few years ago, and you could see the problems with hierarchical tagging systems right in action back then. (Though it may have gotten better in the meantime) The system appeared simple: There were just two relations, "Article A is a member of category B" and "Category X is a subcategory of category Y". However, in practice, the community was using this system to represent…

> Categories with more than 100 entries" might have a child "Categories with more than 100 entries in need of review"

This should have been specified by 2 separate tags: "Categories with more than 100 entries" and "In need of review".

Re: I am endlessly fascinated with content tagging systems

#187

Instagram's tagging system was actually really effective at categorizing content and discovery because each hashtag was treated as a node in a (giant) graph, where each node has multiple properties, including post count (number of posts using a tag), 'velocity' (number of posts using a particular tag per unit time), etc. I could write up a big post about it as I made a study of it in when I created a web app for find…

I noticed this as a regular user. I’m curious to see what it is like now.

Re: I am endlessly fascinated with content tagging systems

#188
I created a new kind of object store where tagging is one of its key features. Each data object (called a Didget - short for Data Widget) can have a set of contextual tags attached. This is true whether the Didget holds file data like a photo, a document, or a piece of software; or if it holds other kinds of structured or semi-structured data (relational tables, folders, configuration, etc.).

Each defined tag has a data type (STRING, INTEGER, DATETIME, etc.) and a 2 level context. Like a column in a relational table within a columnar store; all the values for the same defined tag are stored together. This makes querying extremely fast.

So you can define tags like Person.FirstName, Event.Wedding, FileSystem.Extension and then attach values to files and other kinds of content. You can then query the system (e.g. Find all photos where Person.FirstName = 'Billy') based on their tags.

I have created containers with 200M of these objects and put a dozen or so tags on each one. It can run queries that return in just a couple of seconds.

Demo Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWIo6sia_hw

Re: I am endlessly fascinated with content tagging systems

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "no regenerating limbs those arms are toast sorry QA despises them" just isn't useful if I want to locate a particular text, other than "I'm liable to get a Tumblr-stink off of this crap." Yeah, but you're not looking for that tag, and that tag wouldn't affect your search in any way. That's the thing. You're approaching tags like they can only only ever be used one way, and yes they can be that, and also other thin…

You have it backward: I found the fic through other means entirely and eventually dropped it. When I encountered it again on AO3 (it was a cross-post), I said "Oh, look at those horrible tags." It was notable in the fact that I said "I need to keep this one handy the next time I end up having yet another conversation with someone about how much tagging sucks on AO3." Because this isn't the first time someone has brou…

Wait so, this tag you didn't like didn't even stop you from finding the fic? It didn't clog up your search at all because it wasn't even in your search when you found the fic you were looking for? What's the problem exactly? You're approaching this with a library lens but it's not a library! It was never even intended to be a library!

Additionally, it doesn't show up when you're searching for regeneration or limbs because it's a one-off tag and therefore isn't linked to the rest of the tag network. I suppose it would be a problem if you put it in the general search, but you'd also be catching anything with limb in the title, or limb in the author's name, too. I think this is coming from a place of multiple misunderstandings of how tags work from both a technical and a cultural standpoint.

Re: I am endlessly fascinated with content tagging systems

#190
post #168

I'm surprised I haven't seen more discussion of how tags are an entry point into plain-old data architecture. It should be obvious that by the time you're using tags for queries like "start-date: BEFORE 2022-03-01", you've created an inner-platform where you're building a plain-old relational database on top of your tags. Stop what you're doing and elevate "start date" out of tag-land and into a more structured repre…

What a weird decision to store dates in tags, it looks like bad design. Fully agree with the primer to data architecture, I've seen people almost getting to the point of writing DSL over tags. Madness!
Post reply on HN