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I am endlessly fascinated with content tagging systems

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Re: I am endlessly fascinated with content tagging systems

#81

This is the reason the Semantic Web never took off—people on the internet can't even agree on what a "sandwich" is, let alone the exact hierarchy of ontology. This is an area where large language models have a role to play—whatever you're hoping to achieve with user-generated tags can probably be achieved with ML-powered associations or navigation. And the potential benefit is that it could be tailored to each user—s…

This is what we do for the most part. Two tiers of 'tags'. One is curated and required, the other is an embedding.

Re: I am endlessly fascinated with content tagging systems

#82
I worked with the Wikipedia category system a few years ago, and you could see the problems with hierarchical tagging systems right in action back then. (Though it may have gotten better in the meantime)

The system appeared simple: There were just two relations, "Article A is a member of category B" and "Category X is a subcategory of category Y".

However, in practice, the community was using this system to represent a whole host of wildly different relationships between items, often with different implications what a category actually applied to.

E.g., if A has a subcategory B, this could mean one of several things: B might be an additional constraint on the items in A ("American writers" -> "19th century American writers"), the things in B might be more specific than the things in A: ("Writers" -> "Novelists"), A might apply to the concept B, not the things in B ("Occupations" -> "Writers") or A might refer to the category B ("Categories with more than 100 entries" -> "Writers") and on and on...

Of course those different aspects could even be combined. E.g. "Categories with more than 100 entries" might have a child "Categories with more than 100 entries in need of review", which represents a constraint but might itself contain less than 100 entries...

The basic question "Is item X in category Y" becomes impossible to answer generally, because there is no clear indication if a category only applies to its direct children or to all of its descendants or only to the subcategories itself.

I'm sure there are sophisticated ontological systems which would allow users to specify all those different relationships separately. I'm also pretty sure that users would become sloppy after a short time or would disagree which particular relationship to use in a particular situation...

Re: I am endlessly fascinated with content tagging systems

#83

Why twitter man.. these questions are clearly important but there is a space to discuss them https://matrix.to/#/#datalisp:matrix.org

I had to click like 5 links from that link in order to get to a site which requires me to sign in before allowing me to see the content. I still have no idea what I'm supposed to be seeing. And no idea what the connection between "datalisp" and content tagging systems is.

Maybe that's why twitter man?

Re: I am endlessly fascinated with content tagging systems

#84

> I can't find anything on how to design and implement anymore more than the barebones basics of a system. All of this stuff (horse/horses etc) is extensively discussed, maybe look under "taxonomy" or "ontology". Now, whether you want to use any of those solutions or not or find the discussion useful or not... if you aren't finding anything about it at all, you aren't looking in the right places. (I learned about it…

Can you link some resources about it then?

This is German, but I found it very good:

https://www.isi.hhu.de/fileadmin/redaktion/Fakultaeten/Philo...

Books:

* Cataloging the World

* Organising Knowledge. Taxonomies, Knowledge and Organisational Effectiveness

* The Intellectual Foundation of Information Organization

* The Oxford Guide to Library Research

Re: I am endlessly fascinated with content tagging systems

#85
post #38

I am endlessly fascinated by how twitter has now become a dumping ground for complex topics that are difficult to read and follow. But what happened to the old blogs?

I have a really high standard for my blog posts. They go through several rounds of rewrites, with feedback from friends, before I'm happy with them. That plus the length (median ~2000 words) means that most of my blog posts take weeks or months to write. I can hammer out a tweetstorm in 20 minutes.

(Also, tweets are a fun format! I want each tweet to be a complete idea, which is hard when you have only 280 characters.)

Re: I am endlessly fascinated with content tagging systems

#87

> I can't find anything on how to design and implement anymore more than the barebones basics of a system. All of this stuff (horse/horses etc) is extensively discussed, maybe look under "taxonomy" or "ontology". Now, whether you want to use any of those solutions or not or find the discussion useful or not... if you aren't finding anything about it at all, you aren't looking in the right places. (I learned about it…

The problem isn't knowing what the problem is (taxonomy and ontology), but how to implement it effectively.

I've seen enough of Hillel's posts over the years that I am fairly sure he is aware of taxonomy/ontology too.

Re: I am endlessly fascinated with content tagging systems

#89

This is the reason the Semantic Web never took off—people on the internet can't even agree on what a "sandwich" is, let alone the exact hierarchy of ontology. This is an area where large language models have a role to play—whatever you're hoping to achieve with user-generated tags can probably be achieved with ML-powered associations or navigation. And the potential benefit is that it could be tailored to each user—s…

I thought that the cube rule of food generally settled the sandwich debate. A hot dog is not a type of sandwich, being surrounded on three sides. Instead, it is a type of taco.

Re: I am endlessly fascinated with content tagging systems

#90

This seems like one of those Eternal Problems that people, whether librarians, programmers, or hobbyists, stumble across, think they'll make headway in, then discover that they've really managed to progress just a few feet across a vast and hostile surface of landmines, pitfalls, and lures. Each "obvious" step (I'll have parent relations to define a context!) is only yet another bargain with the Devil, who laughs at…

Tagging’s pain is that it’s a problem that is easy enough where you can come up with plenty of ideas without prior knowledge. Its bane is that it is, in this sense, similar to bikeshedding. Everyone can have an opinion about it; Fortunately, it’s only appealing to people who enjoy exploring problems.
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