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Who cares about diversity?

fakenous.substack.com

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Re: Who cares about diversity?

#181

Post by castlecrasher2 »

ryeguy_24 wrote: post #54

Isn't the real issue behind all the names (diversity, inclusion, etc) about the equalizing of opportunity or at the very least, bringing certain oppressed groups (and, if you don't think certain groups are or have been oppressed or discriminated against, educate yourself) up the opportunity curve? Do we want to live in a world where you have less opportunity because of characteristics you were born with?

> Do we want to live in a world where you have less opportunity because of characteristics you were born with?

As a white man who grew up with a single mother, this is exactly what affirmative action appears to be. Why? Because I already had a rough start, and saw opportunities broadcast and given out to others that I didn't qualify for simply because I wasn't non-white.

I understand the on-paper intents and purposes perfectly well, but the reality is these programs are racist to the core.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#183

Post by unknownaccount »

People shouldnt be forced to accept diversity. It should be opt-in. Forcing anything on a person against their will does not work and leads to radicalization. The harder they push, the more radicalized people become. This is what leads to attacks like Christchurch.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#184

Post by wnolens »

ElCheapo wrote: post #18

I think these institutions believe that more diversity ----> more inclusivity and less racism. How would a racist indian national deeply entrenched in caste culture help my company be less racist? How would an asian supremacist laotian increase the workplace's acceptance? If you want a place of tolerance then it should be populated by tolerant people. Throwing together males and females with a random sample of skin c…

I find it so eerie that institutions are trying to design their work force's distribution of skin color. Unless your work force is make-up models or something.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#185

Post by throwaway894345 »

tptacek wrote: post #166
mixmastamyk wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good point. However, when a phrase becomes its opposite, we should take notice. PRC and Holy Roman Empire come to mind. ;-)

I don't believe any phrase has become its opposite here. Language is complicated, and some words have multiple meanings, and some of those meanings are subtle; the idea that every term should be crystalized down to a single unambiguous meaning is, ironically, quintessentially Orwellian. (I'm not saying Orwell would approve of institutional DEI, which suffers from many similar rhetorical flaws).

> the idea that every term should be crystalized down to a single unambiguous meaning is, ironically, quintessentially Orwellian.

Sure, but no one is advocating for a single unambiguous meaning of the term, the parent seems to be noting that concern should be paid when a word/phrase develops an opposite (or at least very contradictory) meaning, presumably in the context of a charged political environment. You may not believe that's what's happening here, which is fine, but that doesn't imply an argument in favor of singular meanings.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#186

Post by zozbot234 »

missingrib wrote: post #169
tptacek wrote: post #89

The whole blog is like this; it's all sort of comically smug "everybody else in the entire world is wrong, and here is a 7-point axiomatic derivation proving it"†, much of it depending on specific definitions of specific words. Check-mate, atheists! There are lots of good, sharp, critical things to say about the DEI movement, most especially "institutional" DEI, but you can't meaningfully say them when you write with…

This tone is very common in academic philosophy. I would characterize it as being low in rhetoric and extremely blunt. I don't really see how it sounds like "a high school sophomore".

Well, academic philosophy is a rather sophomoric discipline. The non-sophomoric parts of it have long since moved to other departments - PG even has an essay about this http://www.paulgraham.com/philosophy.html

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#187

Post by newfriend »

ryeguy_24 wrote: post #54

Isn't the real issue behind all the names (diversity, inclusion, etc) about the equalizing of opportunity or at the very least, bringing certain oppressed groups (and, if you don't think certain groups are or have been oppressed or discriminated against, educate yourself) up the opportunity curve? Do we want to live in a world where you have less opportunity because of characteristics you were born with?

> Do we want to live in a world where you have less opportunity because of characteristics you were born with?

You mean like making it harder to get into limited college slots (requiring higher scores, etc) based on your race? You're right, that seems awful.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#188

Post by scifibestfi »

In 2018 The Atlantic explained this phenomenon, what the utility is, and correctly posited that it would not likely go away. TLDR; Status games and intra-elite jockeying among the overproduced elite.

"Think about what it takes to claw your way into America’s elite strata. Unless you were born into the upper-middle class, your surest route is to pursue an elite education. To do that, it pays to be exquisitely sensitive to the beliefs and prejudices of the people who hold the power to grant you access to the social and cultural capital you badly want. By setting the standards for what counts as praiseworthy, elite universities have a powerful effect on youthful go-getters."

"As the senior assistant director of admissions at Yale recently observed, “for those students who come to Yale, we expect them to be versed in issues of social justice. We encourage them to be vocal when they see an opportunity for change in our institution and in the world.” Picture yourself as an eager high schooler reading these words, and then jotting down notes. You absorb, assuming you hadn’t already, what it takes to make your way in contemporary elite America. And as you grow older, you lean into the rhetorical gambits that served you so well in the past. You might even build a worldview out of them."

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/08/the-utilit...

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#189

Post by tptacek »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #185
tptacek wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe any phrase has become its opposite here. Language is complicated, and some words have multiple meanings, and some of those meanings are subtle; the idea that every term should be crystalized down to a single unambiguous meaning is, ironically, quintessentially Orwellian. (I'm not saying Orwell would approve of institutional DEI, which suffers from many similar rhetorical flaws).

> the idea that every term should be crystalized down to a single unambiguous meaning is, ironically, quintessentially Orwellian. Sure, but no one is advocating for a single unambiguous meaning of the term, the parent seems to be noting that concern should be paid when a word/phrase develops an opposite (or at least very contradictory) meaning, presumably in the context of a charged political environment. You may not…

Oh, this blog post is sure advocating for a single unambiguous meaning of the term "diversity"; the whole argument falls apart without that definition.

Re: Who cares about diversity?

#190

Post by bheadmaster »

zozbot234 wrote: post #170
ok_dad wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every single person I've met in my life that was racist or sexist or whatever-ist (including myself) has only become a better person and more open-minded when they were forced to work in close proximity to people of other races and cultures. As to myself, I was raised in a pretty racist place in the USA, and via the military I met so many other people that I finally realized that the stereotypes I was taught about ot…

> ... We're not machines, after all, and shouldn't be treated like only our output matters. Sure, but that's not enforcing open-mindedness or tolerance. It's just creating the kind of setting where the benefits of a more tolerant stance are easiest to get.

Sure, but now we're just discussing the meaning of the word "enforce". Perhaps I've just chosen an inappropriate word for the meaning I wanted to convey.
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