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iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS

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Re: iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS

#181

Post by bobthepanda »

capableweb wrote: post #82
londons_explore wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really see the strategic importance of 1 meter Vs 1 cm positioning... Is the enemy missile going to miss the bunker because it hit 1 meter off? Or the enemy built their airport 1 meter wonky because they didn't have access to 1 cm level accuracy?

GPS might have been a military invention, but its uses reaches further out today. I think the purpose of Galileo's encrypted GPS is not to prevent military strikes against European nations, but to be able to offer more precision as a commercial service, making a profit. Basically, companies who use GPS for measurements or what have you, can pay money and get access to improved accuracy.

Right.

1m vs 1cm is not a big deal for a rideshare driver. On the other hand, if two bridge spans meet in the middle and are 1m misaligned, that’s a huge problem.

Re: iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS

#182

Post by nradov »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #127
sorenjan wrote: post #80

Xiaomi released a phone with dual frequency GNSS in 2018 (with the Broadcom BCM4775 chipset), and as far as I know most Android phones have had it since then, or maybe a bit later. If you want to see if your phone supports it, try GPSTest. Garmin has recently released several watches with it as well, both their high end models and some more affordable ones. They also have an auto mode that switches it on or off depen…

How long ago was that? I never remember it taking more than a minute or so to get a good fix with GPS devices. I'm talking about Garmin devices.

Garmin devices have supported downloading satellite ephemeris data from the Internet for several product generations. This greatly accelerates getting a GPS fix. Some models will also get an approximate location via Bluetooth from a paired cell phone.

Long fix times are still an issue today with cameras that lack connectivity.

Re: iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS

#183

Post by lcedp »

NelsonMinar wrote: post #3

Article about what dual-frequency GPS is: https://www.zdnet.com/article/what-is-l5-precision-dual-freq... It says that GPS has added a new band (L5) that works better indoors. Combining it with traditional L1 gives better results. L5 is not fully deployed.

For a moment, I thought L5 refers to Lagrange point 5 and L5 GPS to a new GPS sattelite located there for some reason.

Re: iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS

#184

Post by nradov »

tialaramex wrote: post #171
capableweb wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GPS might have been a military invention, but its uses reaches further out today. I think the purpose of Galileo's encrypted GPS is not to prevent military strikes against European nations, but to be able to offer more precision as a commercial service, making a profit. Basically, companies who use GPS for measurements or what have you, can pay money and get access to improved accuracy.

Because the EU notionally (at least for now) is not a military alliance, Galileo does not have a military application. The slot where you would put a military encrypted mode instead has the "Public Regulated Service" to be used by authorized government bodies which might well in practice be military. As the US found, in practice such services are largely useless, they sound cool, but in practice COTS (Commercial Off…

The EU is a military alliance. There has been a mutual defense clause since 2009. So far it's not clear whether members will actually fulfill that obligation.

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/06/07/like-nato-the-...

Re: iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS

#185

Post by lern_too_spel »

aaaaaaaaaaab wrote: post #30
cronix wrote: post #6

All the better to track you with, my dear.

GPS is passive.

On iOS, the only way to read GPS location also sends GPS location to Apple, so GP has a point. This has been supported on Android for years without such tracking.

Re: iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS

#186

Post by democra »

BoorishBears wrote: post #157
TedShiller wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my 1999 honda civic has a feature that my Porsche 911 doesn't have. doesn't mean my Porsche 911 is a worse car

I wouldn't bother trying to reason on this. I'm an Android developer, but use an iPhone. I've noticed some Android users really need their wins against Apple. It's almost like a Linux user trying to convince you how awesome and slicker the dev experience is, vs how bloated and slow your Macbook is: the point isn't to inform you, it's to reassure themselves.

I don't know which rock you're living under but Apple users do this way way more often to validate their purchase.

Re: iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS

#187

Post by skimo8 »

martyvis wrote: post #176
bobthepanda wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience I find Apple tends not to add features that don’t meet a reliability or quality bar, which is why they’re usually not first movers on things like 4G or 5G. I had an LG phone that was one of the first in 4G (at least on my carrier) and the thing ran so hot it was often painful to touch.

The Apple Reality Distortion Field is clearly still strong.

It’s more a statement of how they operate IMO. I’ve watched them be extremely conservative over the years to see which ideas stick and wait until hardware has matured.

My HTC thunderbolt was one of the first “4G” phones, but was barely useable more than a few hours.

Yes, Apple has made some insane design constraints in the past (butterfly keyboards, the whole thin-ness thing), but their chip choices are usually pretty sound and grounded in reality.

*edit: I wanted to throw in how frustrating the lack of push email was for so long (and still kind of is), but I get it. From their standpoint, they control APNS & can use that for energy efficiency benefits to make a grandma-friendly device

Re: iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS

#188

Post by joecool1029 »

csdvrx wrote: post #97
joecool1029 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most phones since 2013 or so for GLONASS, and most after 2017 or so for GALILEO, at least in the US. These constellations needed US approval to be allowed as supplemental data, and it still requires an initial lock to GPS before feeding them in. GLONASS is only one of the constellations not broadcasting a civilian second band. Additionally, Beidou is still banned and blocked in firmware while in US even though the sa…

> it still requires an initial lock to GPS before feeding them in Is there any technical reason, or is it just protectionism? (as in, no GPS lock? No lock at all, even if Galileo and Glonass are 100% fine!) > Beidou is still banned and blocked in firmware while in US even though the satellites are broadcasting, since this constellation lacks US approval Is it legal to use a Xiaomi phone in Wifi only mode with Beidou…

> Is there any technical reason, or is it just protectionism? (as in, no GPS lock? No lock at all, even if Galileo and Glonass are 100% fine!)

No technical reason. It's a mixture of both legitimate concern for public safety (they are newer constellations with a shorter reliability track record) and the uh, more political concerns over privacy and national security.

I wouldn't be surprised if China does the inverse considering their motivations for developing BeiDou were first and foremost to stop the US jamming the GPS receivers on their missiles. My immediate thought with the decay of US/Russia relations was that it might be a good idea to throw a switch to disable GLONASS in case they start transmitting bogus signals. My assumption is with the 'GPS first' policy, the receiver shouldn't mix in less accurate data, but without documentation I'm not sure.

Personally I'm all for having options and I have come to respect Galileo for being civilian system, rather than a military system. More than anything I want the choice to be able to enable and disable whatever constellations I want and not deal with the bullshit that is Qualcomm's undocumented GNSS receiver firmware.

> Is it legal to use a Xiaomi phone in Wifi only mode with Beidou GNSS?

It's legal to use if it doesn't transmit on someone else's licensed spectrum. It's illegal to sell in the US as a navigation receiver (EDIT: without it being disabled in firmware). But you are free to do whatever you want with captured signals with only a very few restrictions (like sniffing cordless phone bands). I've even sniffed pager networks so I could track COVID cases coming in, afaik it's only illegal if I share what I see.

> I would love to play with Beidou!

Same. I told a GPS launch commander I'd like to play with their system and he got incredibly butthurt. I told him to stop being a bitch and either make the US system better or stop excluding civvies from using it to its fullest potential. There's no commercial alternatives in the US as all commercial satellite projects get heavily subsidized by the US military and they don't want competitors.

Re: iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS

#190

Post by kirillzubovsky »

Honest concern: how do we know that Apple isn't going to secretly share this data anyone who asks for it politely? I know they've been very good at maintaining privacy-first appearance, but where is too much good stuff a bad combo?

Seriously though, I love iPhones as the next guy, and find them very convenient, but are we trading convenience for carrying an unbound GPS tracker in every pocket, and if so, how do we change course? Is it even possible these days to unsubscribe from Apple/Google without feeling like one's living back in the stone age?

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