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iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS

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Re: iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS

#171

Post by tialaramex »

capableweb wrote: post #82
londons_explore wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really see the strategic importance of 1 meter Vs 1 cm positioning... Is the enemy missile going to miss the bunker because it hit 1 meter off? Or the enemy built their airport 1 meter wonky because they didn't have access to 1 cm level accuracy?

GPS might have been a military invention, but its uses reaches further out today. I think the purpose of Galileo's encrypted GPS is not to prevent military strikes against European nations, but to be able to offer more precision as a commercial service, making a profit. Basically, companies who use GPS for measurements or what have you, can pay money and get access to improved accuracy.

Because the EU notionally (at least for now) is not a military alliance, Galileo does not have a military application. The slot where you would put a military encrypted mode instead has the "Public Regulated Service" to be used by authorized government bodies which might well in practice be military.

As the US found, in practice such services are largely useless, they sound cool, but in practice COTS (Commercial Off The Shelf) dominates. The $50 device you see on Amazon has better features than the $500 military product your supplier offers. When you ask the Amazon supplier can sell you 1-1000, with 48 hour delivery but your military supplier quotes 6-12 months with batches of 500.

Can the enemy jam your $50 Amazon special? Maybe. But in a hot war zone, unlike for an annoying neighbour, jamming isn't necessarily an effective strategy because it involves transmitting radio signals, which makes you a target.

Re: iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS

#172

Post by KennyBlanken »

Nappes wrote: post #120
sorenjan wrote: post #80

Xiaomi released a phone with dual frequency GNSS in 2018 (with the Broadcom BCM4775 chipset), and as far as I know most Android phones have had it since then, or maybe a bit later. If you want to see if your phone supports it, try GPSTest. Garmin has recently released several watches with it as well, both their high end models and some more affordable ones. They also have an auto mode that switches it on or off depen…

The speedup you are noticing is probably mostly due to assisted gps, where your phone gets a location using - partial gps information + wifi location + cell tower location all triangulated. Your eg early 2010 car gps unit didn't have any of the addition ways to speed up the location fix

There are three things that lead to fast lock times for cell phones.

* Ephemeris and almanac data updated via the internet so the receiver doesn't have to wait for either and can immediately know what satellites to listen for and acquire.

* Precise clock via NTP so the receiver has a smaller solve space for its internal clock

* AGPS gives a very good position fix to further help with the initial clock and position solving

Re: iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS

#173

Post by lovich »

bscphil wrote: post #158
TedShiller wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my 1999 honda civic has a feature that my Porsche 911 doesn't have. doesn't mean my Porsche 911 is a worse car

I think people are simply surprised that Apple is just now getting around to this, given that it's been a common feature in high end Android phones for quite a while now. OP did not say that Apple phones were worse, you inferred that.

adding in a "...only now implemented by Apple in their top of the line..." and a sarcastic "Neat." right after that sentence make it pretty clear what the poster was implying

Re: iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS

#174

Post by jiggawatts »

rnk wrote: post #151
jiggawatts wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But things are better when they’re from Apple. A random example is Apple TV vs any Smart TV. I just bought a flagship Sony A95K smart television. It has everything, it ticks every checkbox , but the software is basically trash. Low effort garbage that should have failed QA the second you see any part of it. It is 1080p upscaled to 4K, so it’s blurry!!! Even with my worsening vision I can see the fuzzy edges and it ma…

I think you should check out google tv on the latest 4k version. Your review is almost like a sarcastic example of a lazy pro apple review. Some crap tv ui like that sony apparently is does not really say much about apple competitors. Apple is great at some things, but they aren't the only good thing.

What are you talking about!? I have the latest Google TV operating system on the latest flagship Sony television, a model released just months ago! The Google TV OS on the latest available version.

There is no excuse for Google & Sony being so obviously inferior.

The difference between the two is night and day, not some "fanboyism". Switch inputs to the Apple TV and you instantly think "wow!" unless legally blind. Switch back and it's instant disappointment.

Dark oversaturated 1080p upscaled and blurry versus razor sharp native 4K with subtle hues is something anyone can recognise as a clear difference.

The downvotes on my original comment and your response is very telling.

Let me ask you: Have you actually sat down and compared the two? As in, plugged in an Apple TV 4K into an Android TV and switched back and forth?

Or are you just assuming I'm a "fanboy" and have a preference based on nothing more than tribalism?

Re: iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS

#175

Post by akelly »

sorenjan wrote: post #80

Xiaomi released a phone with dual frequency GNSS in 2018 (with the Broadcom BCM4775 chipset), and as far as I know most Android phones have had it since then, or maybe a bit later. If you want to see if your phone supports it, try GPSTest. Garmin has recently released several watches with it as well, both their high end models and some more affordable ones. They also have an auto mode that switches it on or off depen…

Wow you're right, GPSTest on my 2019 Oneplus 7 shows L5 GPS satellites, in addition to L1 GPS, GLONASS, Michibiki, and dual-band Galileo.

Re: iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS

#176

Post by martyvis »

bobthepanda wrote: post #137
reportingsjr wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GNSS is a generic term for satellite based positioning systems. It looks like you're referring to the iPhone adding Galileo support in the 8/X. L5 support has been available in a number of devices for a couple of years now. Garmin was one of the first to use L5 in commercial devices, with their Fenix watches a while back. The phone I'm currently using, the Pixel 6 Pro uses the L5 band. It's nice and I can definitely…

In my experience I find Apple tends not to add features that don’t meet a reliability or quality bar, which is why they’re usually not first movers on things like 4G or 5G. I had an LG phone that was one of the first in 4G (at least on my carrier) and the thing ran so hot it was often painful to touch.

The Apple Reality Distortion Field is clearly still strong.

Re: iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS

#177

Post by lttlrck »

ashirviskas wrote: post #43
cesarb wrote: post #29

For Android users, there's an interesting article about dual-frequency GPS at https://barbeau.medium.com/dual-frequency-gnss-on-android-de... (source: https://github.com/barbeau/gpstest/blob/master/FAQ.md#does-g... ).

So my 2 year old Android device already had a feature that was only now implemented by Apple in their top of the line products. Neat. Does anyone have personal experience of how dual-frequency improves GPS? As I'm not really using GPS a lot, I'm not sure I noticed a difference from my previous devices (I live in EU, so also no high rise skyscrapers here)

"Neat" but if it isn't even noticeable to you, the end user, then perhaps that's why Apple waited. After all, it would require die space, antenna and power.

Re: iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS

#178

Post by ulfw »

scotty79 wrote: post #153
osigurdson wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It interesting how Apple has been able to stay ahead while often being a step or two behind from a technological standpoint (in some areas at least). I think it goes to show how important it is to have things work in a very seamless way.

Ahead in what? Money they fleeced from US market? Core fanbase satisfaction? I don't think they were technologically ahead in anything in a decade or so. Unless you count inventing new charging ports and removing headphone jack or discovering that screen can have notches and customers still buy it.

unless you count the fast mobile chip year over year for the last decade, developed and designed in-house

Re: iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS

#179

Post by osigurdson »

Krasnol wrote: post #167
osigurdson wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It interesting how Apple has been able to stay ahead while often being a step or two behind from a technological standpoint (in some areas at least). I think it goes to show how important it is to have things work in a very seamless way.

> stay ahead while often being a step or two behind Yeah, good advertising can make even those sentences a valid statement.

You dropped “from a technological standpoint” from the parent comment. Removing words from a sentence changes the meaning.

Re: iPhone 14 Pro comes with dual-frequency GPS

#180

Post by nradov »

alephxyz wrote: post #163
sorenjan wrote: post #80

Xiaomi released a phone with dual frequency GNSS in 2018 (with the Broadcom BCM4775 chipset), and as far as I know most Android phones have had it since then, or maybe a bit later. If you want to see if your phone supports it, try GPSTest. Garmin has recently released several watches with it as well, both their high end models and some more affordable ones. They also have an auto mode that switches it on or off depen…

Does the Android OS and apps like Google maps actually use multiple frequencies to get a position fix? I have friends with Samsung phones supporting dual frequency gps yet the GPS accuracy doesn't seem any better than single frequency devices.

They might not notice a huge difference depending on where they use location services. The real accuracy advantage of dual-frequency GPS only become apparent in degraded signal environments, such as next to tall buildings (multipath signal reflections) and under tree canopies. With a clear view of the sky, regular GPS is already quite accurate (especially if the device also supports other GNSS constellations).
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