Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 219 posts

Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#181

Post by CrazyStat »

alsaaro wrote: post #158
crackercrews wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"local speech codes" = not slandering? Pretty sure that applies everywhere.

Who speaks for Oberlin, how can a college slander? "local speech codes" = whatever offends the sensibilities of small town Ohioans.

> Who speaks for Oberlin,

Employees acting in their official capacities, just like any organization.

> how can a college slander?

Same as any newspaper or corporation can slander. In this case a dean acting in her official capacity (she was at the protest for her job) distributed a libelous flyer.

> "local speech codes" = whatever offends the sensibilities of small town Ohioans.

The appeals were not decided by small town Ohioans.

Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#182

Post by kthejoker2 »

alsaaro wrote: post #129
crackercrews wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, that happens. But it's most likely when the accused has too few resources to win at trial. Here the college was clearly in their corner. Why would they plead guilty and say racism was no part of it? Their statements seems very credible under the circumstances.

The kids accused of shoplifting were charged with felonies and eventually plead down to misdemeanors. Race is always a factor in America, especially its criminal justice system, are the students confessions genuine contrition or motivated by fear of disproportionate punishment? A question impossible to answer.

Their guilt was definitely not in question.

They were arrested by the cops in the middle of the act of assaulting the employee (kicking him while he was on the ground) and with the shoplifted property on their possession.

A conviction was already assured, the guilty plea was an extremely rational move, whether out of contrition or fear.

Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#183

Post by CrazyStat »

crackercrews wrote: post #19
jjeaff wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't necessarily go against your point, but I have seen far too many innocent people coerced into pleading guilty to actually believe someone is guilty based on a guilty plea.

Sure, that happens. But it's most likely when the accused has too few resources to win at trial. Here the college was clearly in their corner. Why would they plead guilty and say racism was no part of it? Their statements seems very credible under the circumstances.

The shoplifter is also a Phillips Andover grad--yes, that Phillips Andover, the one that's often ranked #1 prep school in the nation and costs $50k/year in tuition.

Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#184

Post by subsistence234 »

sofixa wrote: post #171
spaetzleesser wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statements like “archaic chase-and-detain policy regarding suspected shoplifters was the catalyst for the protests” is why a lot of people think the left has lost their collective minds. They are making perpetrators into victims and blame the real victims for any bad consequences.

I think (I'm pretty far away from all of this so this is just my impression) the point of these people, often poorly made and sometimes exaggerated, is that petty crimes (especially in a world where everyone is insured anyways so the actual damage is minimal) are not worth ruining human lives over. The American justice system is atrocious, with for profit prisons and extremely high recidivism rates, not to mention ra…

See the wikipedia article to learn what actually happened, the Oberlin statement and the NYT article are misleading:

An employee took a photo of the shoplifter in the act of stealing, the shoplifter got angry and assaulted the employee for this. That's when then the employee tried apprehending the shoplifter.

Assault, not petty theft. Also, doesn't violence turn theft into robbery?

Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#185

Post by subsistence234 »

compiler-guy wrote: post #115
remarkEon wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unrelated to your reply, but that twitter thread is truly bizarre. >The one thing about this that has always struck me as ludicrous is the argument that the student body serves as a tool of the colleges whims. Students fucking hate the administration and resist it at every turn, & always have…much like 19 yos at any liberal arts college Then why go to these schools? I don't understand why you'd pay $80k a year (just…

Generally, they don't hate the institution itself, but rather the administration, or at least aspects of it. It's a classic youth rebellion against authority. They generally love their friends, love many of their teachers, and the environment, but they hate those who would enforce anything against what they think is right, or nice, or prudent.

Irrational rebellion is a puberty thing. Normal adolescents outgrow that phase by age 16. The loudest Oberlin "rebels" are in their mid-20s, some in their 30s and 40s.

Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#186

Post by scarface74 »

pc86 wrote: post #110
ncallaway wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Qualified Immunity would have a large word with you. If an Officer makes a wrongful arrest in the line of duty, Qualified Immunity will go a long way to shielding them, whereas a citizen without Qualified Immunity would be subject to wrongful arrest lawsuits and kidnapping charges.

This is an excellent argument for getting rid of qualified immunity, but not a very good argument against citizens' right to detain those they see committing crimes. I don't think there's much chance the cashier here grabbed the wrong person.

So you would rather give more people the right to take away your freedom?

Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#187

Post by scarface74 »

mpweiher wrote: post #143
scarface74 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you witness a crime you can arrest the criminal He did not say “if you witness a crime you can call the police”. I don’t want a society where any random yokel thinks he can detain someone.

Then you will have to essentially leave the civilised world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen's_arrest#United_States

Georgia just outlawed that practice after the very yokels who tried to make a citizens arrest because someone committed a crime of “looking like they don’t belong”

Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#188

Post by scarface74 »

krzyk wrote: post #103
scarface74 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you witness a crime you can arrest the criminal He did not say “if you witness a crime you can call the police”. I don’t want a society where any random yokel thinks he can detain someone.

You can't argue with the law.

The old Dixiecrats said the same thing about Jim Crow laws, laws against miscegenation, etc.

But that law was in fact “argued against” in the very red Georgia and it was repealed by a Republican legislation and Republican governor

Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#189

Post by jononomo »

tptacek wrote: post #140
jononomo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oberlin drove the bakery out of business while knowing full well that the bakery did nothing wrong. The kid that got caught shoplifting plead guilty and he also outright stated that racism was not involved.

That's an uncharitable summary. This is an unusually huge defamation award, and I support it: Oberlin richly deserved the outcome they had in court. But the story you're telling is not accurate. School administrators at Oberlin pretty clearly believed that Gibson's racially profiled students and victimized lower-income non-white students. And, here's the important thing about that: to some extent, Oberlin is entitled…

First, this guy was not a lower-income student -- he had attended a $50k/year private high school. Second, Oberlin did not believe that Gibson's racially profiled students. Third, the kids not only shoplifted, they then kicked and beat the fellow who tried to chase them and stop them from shoplifting.

Re: After a Legal Fight, Oberlin Says It Will Pay $36.59M to a Local Bakery

#190

Post by tptacek »

jononomo wrote: post #189
tptacek wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an uncharitable summary. This is an unusually huge defamation award, and I support it: Oberlin richly deserved the outcome they had in court. But the story you're telling is not accurate. School administrators at Oberlin pretty clearly believed that Gibson's racially profiled students and victimized lower-income non-white students. And, here's the important thing about that: to some extent, Oberlin is entitled…

First, this guy was not a lower-income student -- he had attended a $50k/year private high school. Second, Oberlin did not believe that Gibson's racially profiled students. Third, the kids not only shoplifted, they then kicked and beat the fellow who tried to chase them and stop them from shoplifting.

I agree with your first statement.

I disagree with your second.

I agree with your third statement.

None of this changes anything I said.

Post reply on HN