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The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

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Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#181
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative is throwing people in prison. Which seems to me to be a much worse deal.

This is one alternative the USA has chosen, but obviously not the only one.

I’m not sure what other options there are. Illegal: people go to jail. Legal: people who shouldn’t take these drugs will have access. I’m certainly open to suggestions though.

Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#182
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read a meta study like https://mindmedicineaustralia.org.au/wp-content/uploads/Long... . From section 3.3-3.4, you can see that psychedelic use is beneficial for anxiety and depression and results in improved well-being, increased openness to experience and increased spirituality. Psilocybin-assisted psychotherapy for substance abuse has positive effects. The safety profile shows that they are not risk-free but that…

> psychedelic use is beneficial for anxiety and depression The claim is that psychedelic use is beneficial /because/ it's psychedelic, but this isn't necessarily true (because of the rule that the boring outcome is the most likely). You could probably invent a kind of ketamine that does absolutely nothing interesting and yet still has the benefits. > increased spirituality Is that a positive effect? Imagine all the p…

> You could probably invent a kind of ketamine that does absolutely nothing interesting and yet still has the benefits.

Maybe it can be done but the real reason that the companies are working on this is that they can patent these new drugs, and that would increase patients' costs (see esketamine vs ketamine). A better use of money might be to do larger studies of existing psychedelics/dissociatives, since these side-effects (psychedelic experiences) are enjoyable for most and we won't know long-term effects of new drugs and whether they do much besides what they would get potentially approved for. These companies would then have a big incentive and money to lobby to keep the existing psychedelics/dissociatives illegal.

Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#183
post #5

There was an NYT article not too long ago whose entire point is that "true" psychedelic drugs are too dangerous to go mainstream, but isolated chemical compounds that provide some of the chemical effects of LSD / Mushrooms / Ketamine without the "trip" were a much better way to go. The reasoning was that they could engineer a way to chemically induce neuroplastic change in the brain without the liability of visual or…

Bad trips are not caused by the drug, they're caused by set and setting. You just have to let go and accept whatever's happening to enjoy the trip. Unfortunately, letting go is easier said than done. The Ego is very good at self preservation and it invariably prevents the letting go process.

Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do I join? ( serious question)

https://chat.nootropicsrebirth.com/ After a group buy the admin has his own site where he sells it as well. We had another chemist but he was in Ukraine and is missing currently . He had a huge selection of compounds on his own site . Admin site : nootropicsfrontline.com

Holy smokes, talk about exotic stuff. Very cool to see this kind of pioneering is going on. Be careful!

Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#185
> The line tops out at a dose of 10 mg/kg, or “mig per kig,” as chemists pronounce it.

So that would make the sweet-spot dose for someone my weight about 800mg, which doesn't sound very 'potent' to me. I haven't read PIHKAL, perhaps that dosage is in line with the kind of substances Shulgin tested.

Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#186
post #72
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know alcoholics who are well to do, out of debt, happily married, and have a diverse social circle and several personal hobbies, get exercise, and enjoy thinking. None of that shows the merits of alcoholism. I can't speak for the person you're replying to, but I could guess that it's your drug addiction that they have no desire to emulate. Addicts insisting that their addiction isn't one is cliché for a reason.

Psychedelics are largely not "addictive". Certainly not physiologically, and almost certainly not mentally.

Many psychedelics are the opposite of addictive: if you take LSD for more than a couple of days, for example, the effect diminishes to nothing, whatever dose you take. You need at least a couple of weeks to re-sensistise.

Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> psychedelic use is beneficial for anxiety and depression The claim is that psychedelic use is beneficial /because/ it's psychedelic, but this isn't necessarily true (because of the rule that the boring outcome is the most likely). You could probably invent a kind of ketamine that does absolutely nothing interesting and yet still has the benefits. > increased spirituality Is that a positive effect? Imagine all the p…

> You could probably invent a kind of ketamine that does absolutely nothing interesting and yet still has the benefits. Maybe it can be done but the real reason that the companies are working on this is that they can patent these new drugs, and that would increase patients' costs (see esketamine vs ketamine). A better use of money might be to do larger studies of existing psychedelics/dissociatives, since these side-…

> these side-effects (psychedelic experiences) are enjoyable for most

I don't know whether the experience of purple sage counts as psychedelic; I tried it once. The visuals are reminiscent of LSD visuals, but richer. But there's no euphoria at all. Combined with extreme couch-lock, I didn't find it enjoyable.

Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I publicly, to my peer group at least, state I have enjoyed benefits of psychedelic drugs every five or ten years, I am pretty sure I have my shit together compared to most people. That being said i know the people you are talking about, but they in my experience use drugs much more frequently. Multiple times a year, and regularly also smoke weed etc. Obviously biased when talking about myself, but I think you can sp…

35 years of dealing with friends and family addiction issues. They all believe it doesn’t affect them negativity, that people can’t tell. They are all wrong. We can see the changes in them. Good or bad. The ones that make an effort to get off for awhile are usually shocked when they realize how they were being affected. I have never seen positive long term affects in anyone of them. Even though they all claim otherwi…

Your absolutist stance is absurd. Just because all people who don't believe that some substance affects them negatively are wrong because a certain percentage of people who consume that substance are actually wrong. The same goes for certain changes in behavior, they don't automatically mean that a problem exists.

This basic claim is like saying an ocasional drinker who's become more social because alcohol helps them with talking to groups of people in certain specific situations is no different from an alcoholic because both drink and behave differently while drinking. Context, quantity and quality all make defining differences. How tedious it is to be judged harshly by someone who can't see this and takes any example of consuming something as a case of not admitting addiction. Often there really is no addiction.

Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://chat.nootropicsrebirth.com/ After a group buy the admin has his own site where he sells it as well. We had another chemist but he was in Ukraine and is missing currently . He had a huge selection of compounds on his own site . Admin site : nootropicsfrontline.com

Holy smokes, talk about exotic stuff. Very cool to see this kind of pioneering is going on. Be careful!

Oh yeah. We are extremely careful

Re: The high-stakes race to engineer new psychedelic drugs

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You likely did a starter dose of LSD. Also, it doesn't depend on stomach processing to activate, which means its not diet dependent - shrooms very much are. Plenty of people make a mistake of taking shrooms after eating a meal, not getting anything after an hour, taking more thinking their shrooms are weak, and then when it hits they are taken for quite a ride. The right way to dose shrooms IMO is not eating 4 hours…

Oh sure. Yeah I've done all that, including growing them. And I always take them on an empty stomach. The thing is that shrooms bring up a lot of deep emotions for me which can be hard to handle. I don't have much experience with LSD but that trip was more cerebral and easier to deal with than the emotional roller coaster of shroom trips I've had. Maybe it was just the dosage, I don't know.

I'm sure your LSD dose must have been low. A good dose of LSD creates the most powerful experience I've ever had, and it's not really controllable. Shrooms are much more gentle; it's much easier to "look away" from the experience.
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