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Apple Cash

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Re: Apple Cash

#181

Post by leokennis »

FabHK wrote: post #135
vivegi wrote: post #119

In India, the coalescing of payments around the National Payments Corporation of India (NPCI)'s payment network and standard called Unified Payments Interface (UPI) has been a gamechanger. Bank consumers can create virtual addresses that they can give to any individual or entity and use it for sending / receiving money. The recipient can be a customer of any bank, not necessarily theirs. As long as the bank is on the…

Goes to show that deft government regulation/steering can really achieve something. Similar to SEPA in the EU.

I read about a lot of proprietary apps/services in this chat to allow easy and instantaneous transfers of money between parties. They probably work fine and most importantly filled a gap at the right time.

But with SEPA Instant Payments (https://www.ecb.europa.eu/paym/integration/retail/instant_pa...) there is:

- A scheme that works based on standards: ISO PACS messages (easy for other banks to join)

- Actually transfer the funds from bank A to bank B (not sure if other schemes mentioned here basically work on a "we received an acknowledgement, we promise to send the actual money later via a real payment") in a 10 second period

- Does not depend on the commitment of a (small) group of private companies top keep existing, but instead depends on an obligation in EU law enforcing the national banks to force their member banks to implement it

The only thing that still sucks is that you send money to others based on their IBAN - which is fine but definitely not as intuitive as an e-mail address or phone number.

Re: Apple Cash

#182

Post by ptman »

vivegi wrote: post #119

In India, the coalescing of payments around the National Payments Corporation of India (NPCI)'s payment network and standard called Unified Payments Interface (UPI) has been a gamechanger. Bank consumers can create virtual addresses that they can give to any individual or entity and use it for sending / receiving money. The recipient can be a customer of any bank, not necessarily theirs. As long as the bank is on the…

It's really ridiculous that EU is relying on Mastercard/Visa everywhere. There is EPI (European Payments Initiative, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Payments_Initiative), but it's slow. And not everyone is happy with that, so there's a competing initiative called P27 https://nordicpayments.eu/

Re: Apple Cash

#183

Post by vivegi »

leokennis wrote: post #181
FabHK wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Goes to show that deft government regulation/steering can really achieve something. Similar to SEPA in the EU.

I read about a lot of proprietary apps/services in this chat to allow easy and instantaneous transfers of money between parties. They probably work fine and most importantly filled a gap at the right time. But with SEPA Instant Payments ( https://www.ecb.europa.eu/paym/integration/retail/instant_pa... ) there is: - A scheme that works based on standards: ISO PACS messages (easy for other banks to join) - Actually tra…

UPI's design is very good. It does all of the mentioned points along with ease of use.

1. You can discover the counterparty using their registered mobile phone number tied with their bank account. In B2B and P2P scenarios, the business or the individual already has the counterparty's phone number in most cases. So, this handles like 90% of the cases of simple discoverability. For use cases like sending money to friends/family, this is perfect.

2. The mapping of the virtual address to the bank account is maintained and managed by the banks (as part of the bank's UPI interface mandated by the standard) and shared with the NPCI's UPI backend using tokenization.

3. A user can create multiple virtual private addresses [VPAs] (eg: mybillpay@bigbank, subscriptions@bigbank etc.,). The user can then track their spends/receipts by VPA.

The ease of use is an order of magnitude higher compared to entering bank account information. Settlements are bank-to-bank and instantaneous (~2-3 secs) powered by the NPCI backbone.

India used to have a high use of Cash-on-delivery (COD) for e-commerce. This gave a good electronic equivalent for COD that also helped e-com operators.

Re: Apple Cash

#184

Post by pkulak »

oezi wrote: post #49
pkulak wrote: post #9

Really silly and not related, but I've tried half a dozen of these things for managing my kid's allowance and general spending, and they have all been a PITA. Either my kids can't sign up without a drivers license and credit check, or they can't send money to me or between themselves, or something else entirely. Maybe Apple has fixed this, but I do remember also trying Cash, and there was some deal breaker for my use…

Does Matrix have a money feature (excuse my ignorance), which can be controlled by bots?

Oh, sorry, no. Matrix is just the UI for a bot that does all its own accounting.

Re: Apple Cash

#185

Post by tapland »

SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #118
ahoka wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swish is just another proprietary solution though along with BankID. And BankID basically requires residency in Sweden (and much more), so it's not something you can install while visiting to pay at flea markets. Their only appeal is that they are ubiquitous.

I lived in Sweden as a resident for a period of time (less than the amount you are required to get a personnumber, one of the requirements for BankID) and sometimes not having Swish was a real hassle. Oftentimes it was with smaller mom-and-pop shops whose primary method of accepting payment was Swish. Carrying cash usually solved the problem, but not always. Transferring money to and from friends was also more diffic…

In practice signing up for a regular account w/ debit card, bankid etc as a US citizen isn't very different from signing up as a Sweden.

You'll run into issues trying to open an account for trading stocks though.

Re: Apple Cash

#186

Post by TheNewsIsHere »

propter_hoc wrote: post #162
voisin wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flip side in Canada is our wire system for large transfers. We rolled our own technology and it is a complete failure. I do wire transfers many times per year and I would say 1/3 of them end in “lost” payments that require multiple phone calls and a number of days for the investigations group to track down. And this is through no error on the sender or recipient side (as explained by the investigations teams). Th…

This is a really surprising comment to me. I also do many wire transfers and EFTs (used to run an investment company, so on the order of 200 incoming/outgoing EFTs and 4-5 wires per month) and have no idea what you are talking about. The only times I've had issues is either (1) when the banking information was entered incorrectly, either by a client or by my staff; (2) if it's a weird kind of trust account that doesn…

I’m not the OP, but anecdotally as an American who used to work for a Canadian company which handled cross-border payroll by wire from Canada, my experience was for the most part that our payroll person worked her ass off to get everything right each time and that it was quite a significant amount of work. The actual transfers would always settle on the date expected and as expected, but I was always missing $10. I took it as a professional expense (loss) on my taxes, and no one from my bank to TD (the firms bank) could tell me which intermediary was taking a fee. They had tried for years before I came along to get to the root cause of it. All the US based people had the same issue.

Re: Apple Cash

#187

Post by subpixel »

vivegi wrote: post #119

In India, the coalescing of payments around the National Payments Corporation of India (NPCI)'s payment network and standard called Unified Payments Interface (UPI) has been a gamechanger. Bank consumers can create virtual addresses that they can give to any individual or entity and use it for sending / receiving money. The recipient can be a customer of any bank, not necessarily theirs. As long as the bank is on the…

I'm reminded that in 1994, in Germany, I could give you a number and you could send me money, for free, via the post office.

Re: Apple Cash

#188

Post by FabHK »

leokennis wrote: post #181
FabHK wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Goes to show that deft government regulation/steering can really achieve something. Similar to SEPA in the EU.

I read about a lot of proprietary apps/services in this chat to allow easy and instantaneous transfers of money between parties. They probably work fine and most importantly filled a gap at the right time. But with SEPA Instant Payments ( https://www.ecb.europa.eu/paym/integration/retail/instant_pa... ) there is: - A scheme that works based on standards: ISO PACS messages (easy for other banks to join) - Actually tra…

> IBAN - which is fine but definitely not as intuitive as an e-mail address or phone number.

I see how that makes sense for most people, but I have so many emails and phone numbers and change them so frequently that I find it somewhat spooky. Providers can re-assign a phone number after some time, and when I transfer money using a phone number the app does not show me the name of the recipient before making the transfer (understandably, as that would be a terrible privacy leak), so I don't feel comfortable doing it...

At the same time, I am pretty sure that banks are loth to re-assign an account number, and if they do so, have processes in place that are adequate to the significance of that (as opposed to telco providers, who presumably did not intend for their phone numbers to serve as an identifier for money transfers...)

Re: Apple Cash

#189

Post by WorldMaker »

kalleboo wrote: post #76
user_named wrote: post #14

A bit of a product marketing snafu by Apple if I may say. 1. Apple Cash is apparently not cash, nor a wallet, but a card that is stored inside wallet. 2.There is already Apple Wallet, Apple Pay, Apple Card. It looks to me that they're all the same. Why can't I Pay with the Cash in my Wallet. Or can I?

- Apple Wallet is an e-wallet that can contain many things - payment cards, store point cards, plane tickets, concert tickets, vaccine certificates, driver's license, etc. - Apple Pay is a method to pay using the payment cards in your Wallet in stores and online that is supported by many credit/debit cards - Apple Card is a MasterCard credit card - Apple Cash is an bank account with a VISA debit card. This is inline…

Interesting, this comment is the first I've learned/noticed that Apple Cash switched to the Visa network. As an Apple Cash user for some time (via the Apple Card and its Daily Cash), previously the Apple Cash card was on the Discover network and that limited its usefulness somewhat because Discover as a network is accepted by a lot fewer vendors than the top 2 of Visa/Mastercard. It's nice to know that it switched to the more common network.

(Also a neat part of a virtual card: checking in the Apple Wallet I can see that the card already switched numbers/networks for me. I don't need to wait for a replacement card. If not for this comment I wouldn't have even thought to check if it had switched, just transparent in the background. I probably got an email on it I ignored if I had wanted to know sooner, but there are so many emails.)

Re: Apple Cash

#190

Post by WorldMaker »

duskwuff wrote: post #24
user_named wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I was guessing that's possible. I mean that the separation of these into separate products seems confusing when they're actually one.

> when they're actually one. They are not. Apple Cash does not require the user to have an Apple Card.

Right, and part of why we're talking about Apple Cash right now is that Apple is expanding the reasons to use Apple Cash even without Apple Card. New features like person to person payments and Family Apple Cash accounts don't require Apple Card at all and are Apple Cash-focused features.
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