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Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

reuters.com

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Re: Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

#181

Post by dang »

asasidh wrote: post #180
dang wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't post unsubstantive comments, please don't take HN on generic tangents, and especially not generic flamewar tangents. All that leads to predictable and lower-quality discussion. We'd like the vector to point the opposite way here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

When disagreeing, please reply to the argument.

Moderation comments are about the site rules. They're off-topic, but that's (alas) a necessary evil in order to prevent the system from ending up in well-known failure modes.

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...

If you'd please stick to the rules from now on, we'd appreciate it, and I'd personally appreciate because it would mean fewer tedious moderation comments.

Re: Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

#182

Post by aaron695 »

Tuvalu is growing in size.

So, I know most people on HN are just environmental junkies tied to the environmental industrial complex's teat.

But it's pretty cool for the rest of us normies, we are making islands and will continue to make islands. Tuvalu will just keep on growing.

It's important to keep them beautiful as they grow, that means not just filling in the atoll or something crazy but growing into the sea, but as technology gets better hopefully they will just get more beautiful. That's what we need to keep on top of. Continue to increase their size but keep them beautiful.

FACT CHECK Is the Pacific island nation of Tuvalu growing, and not sinking https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-19/fact-check-is-the-isl...

Re: Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

#183

Post by beervirus »

bellyfullofbac wrote: post #167
beervirus wrote: post #34

Pure theater. > Kofe said he delivered the video address, scheduled to be aired at COP26 on Tuesday, in a place that used to be dry land, adding that Tuvalu was seeing a lot of coastal erosion. Coastal erosion, not climate change, not rising sea levels.

The world's burning and you're nitpicking about this...

“We’re faking the world burning and you’re nitpicking about the fakery…”

Re: Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

#184

Post by jonathankoren »

vntok wrote: post #79
handrous wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and then acts with impunity against you

Russia acts with impunity on Ukraine soil, however Ukraine is a state for all definitions of state I could find.

Ukraine continues to have foreign economic and military aid, while Russia continues to have economic sanctions due to its actions in Ukraine. Just because one country is stronger than another, isn’t the sole deciding factor, but the ability to assert your claims as a matter of fact, rather than law, is certainly key.

The Republic of Minerva, was not a state, because no one cared when Tonga claimed it.

Conversely, Taiwan is a state, even with its bizarre legal status, as it has well defined borders, and de facto foreign recognition and military alliances.

Re: Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

#186

Post by mlyle »

323 wrote: post #176
mlyle wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If A) the container ships could tolerate containers full of dirt and rock (nope-- each of these 2-TEU containers would weigh 100 tonnes... compare to gross tonnage of ~200000 tonnes and you're only moving 2000 such containers in a load), B) the containers themselves could safely tolerate this much mass & weight (nope), and B) raising the island 1 meter is enough (probably nope).

Note that dirt/rock is not carried in containers, but in so called "bulk carriers". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulk_carrier

Yes, mentioned in my first comment, made 3 hours before yours: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29177718 :P

But as long as people were doing the container ship math, I figured I'd point out the problems with it.

Re: Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

#187

Post by jasomill »

L3viathan wrote: post #151
deanCommie wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So does the Red Cross and the International Olympic Committee [1]. And if you scroll up you see so do many "banks". UN Observer status is most often used to discuss the status of states like Palestines but it has less of an implication of being a sovereign "state" than people think. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembl...

The order of Malta is on a different level though: It's a sovereign entity in international law[1], the IOC, banks, etc. aren't The only somewhat comparable thing afaik is the Holy See, but that at least has sovereignty over some land (the vatican). [1] although this status is sometimes questioned

Just to be clear to passers-by, all banks in this list are intergovernmental development organizations, not commercial banks.

Re: Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

#188

Post by [deleted] »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #115
ocschwar wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, a nation with a thriving Polynesian culture is probably the best place to collect atoll refugees.

Perhaps, perhaps not. In Hawaii there is actually a lot of tension between the Kanaka Maoli (Native Hawaiians), the Marshallese, and Micronesians. I am not keen as to exactly why this is, but I think it underscores the importance of providing more resources for both the Pacific Islanders already living receiving limited assistance, and the new arrivals. I think the government shouldn't just assume they'll get along b…

[deleted]

Re: Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

#189

Post by coredog64 »

ocschwar wrote: post #19
toomuchtodo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought of that, but didn’t mention it because there are a lot of unknowns like China just straight up ignoring them or how you’d license, govern, and patrol the waters. It’s a valid asset though, good point.

China doesn't have to wait for the islands to submerge to do that. Chinese fishing fleets have violated fishing rules in Ecuadorian waters. The Tuvaluans have no chance when all they have is a few motor dinghies and M-16s.

Other nations that are parties to the Nauru agreement can (and will) do something about it though. Australia, New Zealand, and the United States all take the agreement pretty seriously as well.

On the other hand, both China and Taiwan spread money around in the PNA countries as a form of soft power and to get some level of looking the other way.

Re: Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

#190

Post by smnrchrds »

hammock wrote: post #109

The image of the government official standing in the water "on what used to be dry land" is quite dramatic.[1] Unfortunately that land is not underwater due to climate change-driven sea level rise, but due to soil erosion. They do mention this fact, however the focus of the article inexplicably remains on rising sea levels. A factchecker might call that "missing context" (or worse). [1] https://www.reuters.com/resize…

> Unfortunately that land is not underwater due to climate change-driven sea level rise

Did anyone think it to be the case? That the sea levels have risen a meter already and we just haven't tuned in to the news recently enough to learn about it?

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