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Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

reuters.com

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Re: Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

#11

Post by lcpriest »

rectang wrote: post #3

If the worst case scenario happens and Tuvalu is submerged, how will the state manage to survive even without territory? Is that in the best interest of its citizens? Can any of the nation's collective wealth be preserved, either in the form of an enduring landless state as proposed, or by in some way transferring that wealth as the citizens emigrate somewhere else? Or is this proposal the futile death throes of a st…

New Zealand has previously given citizenship to island nation citizens, it is likely that that will continue if things worsen.

Re: Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

#13

Post by toomuchtodo »

coredog64 wrote: post #9
toomuchtodo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These nations will need to make arrangements to migrate to welcoming host nations, that will allow for local governance similar to how tribal lands work in the US. Wealth could be preserved by seeking restitution from nations according to lifetime emissions (which has led to sea level rise), and creating a trust to manage and distribute the returns from those funds invested to citizens where ever they are. Once subme…

Assuming we haven’t also destroyed fishing stocks, countries like Tuvalu and Kiribati have huge value from the fishing rights within their EEZ.

I thought of that, but didn’t mention it because there are a lot of unknowns like China just straight up ignoring them or how you’d license, govern, and patrol the waters. It’s a valid asset though, good point.

Re: Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

#15

Post by AutumnCurtain »

bin_bash wrote: post #10
SoapSeller wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They always have the option of building a platform(Sealand[0] like) and claim the territory. Probably there still few advantages to be recognized as nation. Being Tax shelter and selling domains(.tv is somewhat popular) comes to mind. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand

Sealand isn't a great example considering nobody recognizes it as a country. Tuvalu might get away with it since they would've been a "real" country in the past.

I assume he just meant a platform resembling that although it should be apparent that would come nowhere close to the size, beauty, or natural wealth of the current islands.

Re: Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

#16

Post by AutumnCurtain »

lcpriest wrote: post #11
rectang wrote: post #3

If the worst case scenario happens and Tuvalu is submerged, how will the state manage to survive even without territory? Is that in the best interest of its citizens? Can any of the nation's collective wealth be preserved, either in the form of an enduring landless state as proposed, or by in some way transferring that wealth as the citizens emigrate somewhere else? Or is this proposal the futile death throes of a st…

New Zealand has previously given citizenship to island nation citizens, it is likely that that will continue if things worsen.

Between wealthy doomsday preppers and Pacific climate refugees, New Zealand is dealing with the immigrant trends of 2050 today!

Re: Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

#17

Post by ocschwar »

rectang wrote: post #3

If the worst case scenario happens and Tuvalu is submerged, how will the state manage to survive even without territory? Is that in the best interest of its citizens? Can any of the nation's collective wealth be preserved, either in the form of an enduring landless state as proposed, or by in some way transferring that wealth as the citizens emigrate somewhere else? Or is this proposal the futile death throes of a st…

Tuvalu exists as a state because the international community decided to let them. They export coconuts and fishing licenses for hard currency, and there is no way they could muster the money and hardware to defend their patch of the ocean. So if the same institutions that decided to enable the foundation of the republic of Tuvalu decide to protect Tuvualuan territorial waters as a way to give the Tuvaluan diaspora some source of currency with which to start over where they go, then that is what will be,.

Re: Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

#18

Post by ocschwar »

AutumnCurtain wrote: post #16
lcpriest wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New Zealand has previously given citizenship to island nation citizens, it is likely that that will continue if things worsen.

Between wealthy doomsday preppers and Pacific climate refugees, New Zealand is dealing with the immigrant trends of 2050 today!

Well, a nation with a thriving Polynesian culture is probably the best place to collect atoll refugees.

Re: Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

#19

Post by ocschwar »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #13
coredog64 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming we haven’t also destroyed fishing stocks, countries like Tuvalu and Kiribati have huge value from the fishing rights within their EEZ.

I thought of that, but didn’t mention it because there are a lot of unknowns like China just straight up ignoring them or how you’d license, govern, and patrol the waters. It’s a valid asset though, good point.

China doesn't have to wait for the islands to submerge to do that. Chinese fishing fleets have violated fishing rules in Ecuadorian waters. The Tuvaluans have no chance when all they have is a few motor dinghies and M-16s.

Re: Tuvalu looking at legal ways to be a state if it is submerged

#20

Post by ocschwar »

bin_bash wrote: post #6
toomuchtodo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These nations will need to make arrangements to migrate to welcoming host nations, that will allow for local governance similar to how tribal lands work in the US. Wealth could be preserved by seeking restitution from nations according to lifetime emissions (which has led to sea level rise), and creating a trust to manage and distribute the returns from those funds invested to citizens where ever they are. Once subme…

call me cynical, but would any country be willing to give up its land like that? Tribal lands only exist to give back a small fraction of stolen lands back. Would any country give land to another country just for goodwill?

Brittany and Galicia are both the result of an explicit land grant to British refugees from the English invasion.
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