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Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

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Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#181

Post by distances »

void_mint wrote: post #169
Olreich wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The payoff for ICU nurses is a new critical patient right now. They don’t get to see the lives they save reunited with family or recovering at all. They just get a transfer to a lower level of care and a new patient in. They are also seeing a lot more deaths than usual. 10% mortality is in the ballpark normally. With COVID they are seeing 50% mortality. That’s a lot to deal with, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a…

> With COVID they are seeing 50% mortality. Source?

Not your source, but there was an interesting thread in Reddit with nurses discussing how basically all intubated patients are now checking out via morgue. https://www.reddit.com/r/nursing/comments/pbvcdu/uhh_are_any...

Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#182

Post by sul_tasto »

f69281c wrote: post #84
karaterobot wrote: post #53

When I've been burned out or hated my job, I didn't take vacations, because the crushing realization that I'd have to return to work was almost worse than losing myself in the uninterrupted, repetitive, dead-eyed grind. While on vacation, I'd start thinking about the countdown to the end of the vacation. > Well, root out the real causes of burnout. I'll offer the definition that's made most sense to me. I didn't come…

>You can work like a dog to release a feature, and if the feature does what it was meant to do, and you get recognized for your contribution, how hard you worked doesn't matter as much. You are energized, excited to be part of a great team, ready to move on to the next stunning victory. Gross. All that overtime is systematically stamping all the things that are good for the soul out of life. I'm not going to cheer it…

Striving and succeeding at a personal goal is good for the soul. Feeling a sense of purpose at work and in life is good for the soul.

Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#183

Post by hisoko_33 »

physicles wrote: post #170
t0mbstone wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about people who build tons of successful things and get win after win after win, but are still feeling burned out? For me, a "win" would be accomplishing something and then getting to bask in the success and take a fucking break and do nothing for a year. Shoot, even being able to take a break for a month after busting my butt on a project for a year would be nice. But nope. You never really "finish" anything i…

Are there companies that would let you take the rest of the week off in that situation? If so, shouldn’t they also make you work overtime to finish some work that you underestimated? Isn’t the trick to just work at a sustainable pace, day in and day out, and celebrate the wins along the way? All that said, in the last five years my longest holiday has been a week. The work really is endless.

Yes, having worked in a FAANG I actually enjoyed the fact that you're measured in a somewhat standardized way. After delivering enough impact I usually took a step back and chilled for a few weeks. Didn't take vacation, just arrived to the office to chat with friends and play ping pong. Sometimes when I felt like it, I continued to grind towards the next expectations level for the cash bonus, but most of the times it wasn't worth it and I just preferred taking a rest.

Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#184

Post by sul_tasto »

labster wrote: post #83
beerandt wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlimited PTO is crazy to me. It takes the principles of spelled-out employment terms and throws them in the trash. The "flexible hours" policy was bad enough at my last job. Wildly varying interpretations between different managers and department heads under the same roof.

My last job implemented an unlimited PTO policy. In 2020, I took about 7 days off, and worked at least 20 days on weekends. With the increased responsibilities, there just wasn’t any time that was good to leave… until I left for good. It was definitely a factor in my current burnout. The funny thing was before the VCs bought the company, I had two weeks but in practice could ask the CTO for as much time as I wanted.…

The same thing happened to me. Unlimited PTO is a scam.

Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#185

Post by toxik »

m0zg wrote: post #168
shoo wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jennifer Senior's excellent article on burnout, "Can’t Get No Satisfaction" [1], contains this gem of a quote, from psychotherapist & burned-out burnout researcher Prof Barry Farber: > [...] their level of caring couldn’t be sustained in the absence of results > Farber often calls burnout “the gap between expectation and reward,” Also: > “My clients are perfectionists,” says Alden Cass, a therapist to both corporate…

It's not even this for me, as much as it is feeling "trapped" in a situation. I like to keep my options open. When I feel trapped, I move on. "Rewards" can't keep me sane, and without sanity everything else loses meaning. Part of the reason why I got out of big tech: their MO is to keep you trapped, a compliant, good little cog wearing pretty, gold plated handcuffs. As an ex-Microsoft VP once told me: "it's a warm Gu…

Ah yes, temperature is surely the big difference between - let me check my notes - work camps where people starve to death and an office job that you signed up for and are free to leave, with good prospects for your future career.

Apt analogy there.

Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#186

Post by ignoramous »

shoo wrote: post #104
karaterobot wrote: post #53

When I've been burned out or hated my job, I didn't take vacations, because the crushing realization that I'd have to return to work was almost worse than losing myself in the uninterrupted, repetitive, dead-eyed grind. While on vacation, I'd start thinking about the countdown to the end of the vacation. > Well, root out the real causes of burnout. I'll offer the definition that's made most sense to me. I didn't come…

Jennifer Senior's excellent article on burnout, "Can’t Get No Satisfaction" [1], contains this gem of a quote, from psychotherapist & burned-out burnout researcher Prof Barry Farber: > [...] their level of caring couldn’t be sustained in the absence of results > Farber often calls burnout “the gap between expectation and reward,” Also: > “My clients are perfectionists,” says Alden Cass, a therapist to both corporate…

> So what does he tell them? "That happiness equals reality divided by expectations."

Reminds me of, "I asked for wealth and found it in being content with little" / Happiness is in being content.

طلبت الغنى فوجدته في الرضى باالقليل

Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#187

Post by rnoorda »

bluedino wrote: post #178

I hate vacation. Stressful travel, no real downtime, spending money like there's no tomorrow.

I've come to separate travel and vacation in my plans. They are rarely the same for me- I travel when I want to see new things, visit people, explore, etc. Vacation is largely reading, working on relaxing hobbies, or spending unstructured time with friends/family.

I enjoy both, but can understand hating the stress of traveling and spending money.

Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#188

Post by pydry »

jdavis703 wrote: post #78
ineedasername wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No need to be miserable in a union. If you don't like the union you just don't deal with it. Ignore their meetings & other communication. In the US at least, Per the SC's Janus ruling, public unions can no longer require fees at all, and the same goes for private unions in right-to-work states.

I don’t think that’s quite so cut and dry. Sure the OP can easily ignore union politics. But I’ve seen unions defending toxic people with seniority. Good luck if the union is going to bat for someone that’s been taken to HR multiple times.

>But I’ve seen unions defending toxic people with seniority.

Welcome to all human institutions everywhere.

Ought we dispense with courts, governments, corporations, nonprofits, clubs, police, hospitals, etc. too because they all sometimes do this?

Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#189

Post by danielheath »

runawaybottle wrote: post #123
giantg2 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Burnout is caused by working hard at something for a long time and not having it pay off." I agree but would add "lack of hope" to that. I have no hope that my job/career will get better.

I’ll add a small insidious realization of what stress is. It’s one thing to work hard and feel tired after working hard, the causality is natural. It’s when you feel fatigue before you even start the work. Why am I tired before I even begin? That to me it’s a dead giveaway something is wrong. How do you solve that? We mythologized grit , the strength to overcome this preemptive fatigue. But even that, is fatiguing. L…

> How do you solve that? We mythologized grit, the strength to overcome this preemptive fatigue.

Grit and flexibility are in tension with one another.

Being able to accept an approach is unproductive and find another is valuable, in moderation (in excess you flit from task to task without completing any).

Grit is the opposite; being unwilling to give up in the face of adversity is valuable in moderation, but in excess it prevents you from realising when your approach will never pay off.

Re: Vacation isn’t the answer to employee burnout

#190

Post by m0zg »

yoz-y wrote: post #180
m0zg wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even this for me, as much as it is feeling "trapped" in a situation. I like to keep my options open. When I feel trapped, I move on. "Rewards" can't keep me sane, and without sanity everything else loses meaning. Part of the reason why I got out of big tech: their MO is to keep you trapped, a compliant, good little cog wearing pretty, gold plated handcuffs. As an ex-Microsoft VP once told me: "it's a warm Gu…

Wow. Comparing a cushy desk job with massive pay to a prison labour camp. By a millionaire no less…

Doesn't matter how "cushy" it is or how big your paycheck is if you're depressed and going insane. That's the point.
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