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Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

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Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#181

Post by imwillofficial »

sfink wrote: post #156
imwillofficial wrote: post #99

> I'm pretty surprised to still see some misinformation in some of the posts here. “Anything I don’t agree with is misinformation” The data on COVID related subjects has been murky, inconsistent, and poorly collected. The label of misinformation should be used with care. > It's also worth noting that the mRNA does not interact with a person's actual DNA. Like this gem. This is false. RNA can burn back into DNA via re…

>> It's also worth noting that the mRNA does not interact with a person's actual DNA. > Like this gem. This is false. RNA can burn back into DNA via reverse transcriptase(sp) Irrelevant. The vaccine mRNA cannot interact with your DNA, because it doesn't enter the nucleus at all. It is used to produce spike proteins within the cell, outside of the nucleus. The mRNA vaccine is not as exotic or unnatural as people seem…

This is false. We don’t know this for a fact currently. Best assumption at best.

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#182

Post by hackingforfun »

dfawcus wrote: post #178
hackingforfun wrote: post #73

I'm pretty surprised to still see some misinformation in some of the posts here. I have a friend who has a PhD in molecular biology and she described the mRNA vaccines to me. The mRNA is only a piece of the spike protein, and does not enter the cell's nucleus. It only interacts with the cytoplasm. Normally, if a cell had to deal with an actual SARS-CoV-2 virus, it would be dealing with the spike proteins and the enti…

"The mRNA is only a piece of the spike protein, and does not enter the cell's nucleus." and with the AZ vaccine, due to the vector chosen, supposedly it (spike protein) does enter the nucleus. Oops. (note I'm not suggesting the AZ vaccine causes any alteration of our DNA)

Just to clarify I was talking about the Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vaccines.

AstraZeneca’s vaccine uses adenovirus-vectored technology, which is different [1].

[1] https://www.prevention.com/health/a35118263/astrazeneca-vs-p...

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#183

Post by jimmyjazz14 »

dukeofdoom wrote: post #116

Since the daily cases are now up to where they were before the vaccine. Its pretty clear the original promise of the vaccine has been a giant failure. And serious erosion of trust with major medical and political implications. A more sensible approach would be have the at risk group vaccinate. And let the young and strong opt for natural immunity, which it turns out is superior and much more longer lasting anyway. In…

I don't think the vaccines have been a failure at all, they still prevent hospitalization and deaths from COVID quite well, and breakthroughs were predicted to be fairly common from the start. I think what has been a failure is the public messaging about the vaccines and COVID in general. That said, I do agree that we need to move on from the fear based approach to life many have held on to even after getting vaccinated.

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#184

Post by titzer »

bsaul wrote: post #146
titzer wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You gotta be joking, right? You realize the same people who are mouthing off about freedom believe in absolutely zero protections for consumers against food additives and are in a constant state of denial about environmental pollution that has drastically harmed human health and ecosystems right? They very same politicians hemming about freedoms and how vaccines are dangerous just give carte blanche to the marketplac…

Your comment is pretty interesting, because i've had the intimate suspicion that the debate around public health measure to fight covid have been rendered impossible because of the trump / biden US election. The Dem vs Rep political fight seems to be ruining every single scientific debate it gets a hold on. FYI: i'm french, so i have absolutely no interest in that Dem vs Rep debate, and people here i know that are th…

Forgive me for pattern-matching your political leanings; it's insufferable to deal with a dozen variants of "it's just a flu" mutated from the dear leader's mouth over here. You're right, real dialog on scientific matters is getting impossible, because people can't do basic research.

If you'd like to read up on mRNA vaccines, here's an article from the pre-COVID days, before something as simple as a scientific advancement to fight disease became so politically charged.

https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243

Ecological activists, by numbers, are a round off error in the debate over this vaccine. It is absolutely tainted with politics, as the majority of anti-vaxxers land on one side of the political spectrum. I know some. It's everything from "it's the mark of the beast" to "I'm not so sure about this". What really underlies it is a deep, irrational selfishness that doesn't want to do a damn thing, even if, and especially if COVID doesn't seem that risky for that person. That whole line of reasoning is a fail. People who want the pandemic to be over know that vaccination is the only way. Sitting on your ass, no matter what is in your head, and being another vessel for this shit to mutate is actively prolonging it.

So yeah, I absolutely pounce on ignorant people who are prolonging this.

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#185

Post by mrtesthah »

polote wrote: post #142
wyldfire wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lack the background on biology, just a layperson take. > Why should I take a vaccine, when it is now known that vaccinated people can still spread the virus, there's an almost neglible chance of side effect, and with no information about possible long-term side effect. There's unknowns about the long-term effects of infection, too. Several viral infections result in prolonged symptoms or decades-later re-emergence.…

So it just doesn't give any benefit. Reducing the risk of something which is already close to zero, is still 0. If we follow your argument, why not take the vaccine ten times ? The excess mortality of people under 49 years in a country like france is zero in 2020 [0]. About long term effects of infections. Well the same can be said of the vaccine. In both case we have no idea [0] https://www.insee.fr/en/statistiques/…

>Well the same can be said of the vaccine. In both case we have no idea.

See https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/how-do-we-know-covid-19...

   * History tells us that severe side effects are extremely rare, and if they if do occur, they usually happen within the first two months.
   * COVID-19 vaccine technologies have been studied for years and used in other treatments without issue.
   * The vaccine development process, from clinical trials to ongoing monitoring, helps to uncover and understand side effects.

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#186

Post by polote »

mrtesthah wrote: post #171
polote wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As an aside, the virus is actively changing over time, and delta variant is putting a lot more young people in the hospital. If this is the case, this is not hugely more than the previous variants as we can't see it on hospitalizations charts > Why wear your seatbelt if you can still die in a collision? Why not wear a helmet in a car I'm sure it would help in some cases ?

Wearing a helmet in a car is a PITA. Getting vaccinated causes literally no ongoing inconvenience 24-36 hours later. It's effectively a cost-free intervention with enormous upside in terms of protection from death and hospitalization. Helmets are better compared to interventions like masks and social distancing, as they must be used constantly. Edit: taking your analogy less literally, it seems the issue here is the…

I was comparing the helmet to the seatbelt. So the comparison between helmet an seat-belt is not ok, but the comparison between the seat-belt and the vaccine is ok ?

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#187

Post by phonypc »

incrudible wrote: post #119
hackingforfun wrote: post #73

I'm pretty surprised to still see some misinformation in some of the posts here. I have a friend who has a PhD in molecular biology and she described the mRNA vaccines to me. The mRNA is only a piece of the spike protein, and does not enter the cell's nucleus. It only interacts with the cytoplasm. Normally, if a cell had to deal with an actual SARS-CoV-2 virus, it would be dealing with the spike proteins and the enti…

Whatever is causing the severe side-effects, it's probably not the MRNA or the spike protein. With Pfizer/Moderna vaccines, it's likely the lipid nanoparticles causing Myocarditis. With the J&J vaccine, it's likely the viral vector that is causing TTS. Both technologies have never been widely deployed before. The fact that we could not predict and still do not understand these side-effects is quite concerning. It als…

>it's likely the lipid nanoparticles causing Myocarditis

What's this based on? Given the occurrence of myocarditis in actual COVID infections at a higher rate than with the vaccines, it seems more likely to be an immune-mediated response, at least partly to the spike fragments included in the mRNA vaccines.

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#188

Post by polote »

mrtesthah wrote: post #185
polote wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it just doesn't give any benefit. Reducing the risk of something which is already close to zero, is still 0. If we follow your argument, why not take the vaccine ten times ? The excess mortality of people under 49 years in a country like france is zero in 2020 [0]. About long term effects of infections. Well the same can be said of the vaccine. In both case we have no idea [0] https://www.insee.fr/en/statistiques/…

>Well the same can be said of the vaccine. In both case we have no idea. See https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/how-do-we-know-covid-19... * History tells us that severe side effects are extremely rare, and if they if do occur, they usually happen within the first two months. * COVID-19 vaccine technologies have been studied for years and used in other treatments without issue. * The vaccine development process, fr…

The same can be said of unknown longterm side effects of covid

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#189

Post by deathanatos »

NalNezumi wrote: post #123
hackingforfun wrote: post #73

I'm pretty surprised to still see some misinformation in some of the posts here. I have a friend who has a PhD in molecular biology and she described the mRNA vaccines to me. The mRNA is only a piece of the spike protein, and does not enter the cell's nucleus. It only interacts with the cytoplasm. Normally, if a cell had to deal with an actual SARS-CoV-2 virus, it would be dealing with the spike proteins and the enti…

I have never ever on HN seen an argument about DNA and mRNA, but then again I don't follow the conversation too much. As it seems like you know someone with correct background on the subject, so I wanted to ask you something I've always wanted to know as a young,(late 20s) healthy person with no existing risky precondition in this pandemic: Why should I take a vaccine, when it is now known that vaccinated people can…

> Why should I take a vaccine

> when it is now known that vaccinated people can still spread the virus

Because just because you "can" doesn't mean that you're as likely to[1]:

> Fully vaccinated people with Delta variant breakthrough infections can spread the virus to others. However, vaccinated people appear to spread the virus for a shorter time […] This means fully vaccinated people will likely spread the virus for less time than unvaccinated people.

(—the CDC)

> If the chance of me getting hospitalized is so low to begin with, what's the benefit of the vaccine to me.

With what data exists, the chance of side-effects from the vaccine is many orders of magnitude less than the chances of any of suffering from COVID or even death from COVID.

[1]: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-var...

I also don't think it is worth putting stock into fear of the unknown with this vaccine: scientists have developed vaccines before. If anything, the structure of this particular vaccine — an mRNA strand inside a lipid bubble — seems a lot safer and much less ad-hoc than what I understand of earlier vaccines; in fact, it seems like downright engineering, and to me, it is exciting that we've gotten tech for that at such a crucial time. My high-school level biology knowledge of how mRNA interacts with a cell makes me feel that part should be pretty safe; what side-effects the spike protein might have are, I suppose, an unknown, but without the virus, your chances of not getting infected, are, IMO, not good, and the virus will generate far more than just spike proteins, and in far greater numbers. We also know just as little about the long-term side effects of the virus, but thus far, the reports on side-effects from the virus are much worse than reports on side-effects from the vaccine.

That's also just assessing it from the standpoint of "me", but part of the other reason I got the vaccine is that, while I might be young and healthy and might be able to give COVID a run for its money (though honestly, the idea of a respirator scares me far more than anything about the vaccine) I have people around me who are not so young or not so healthy; while I might live, I do not want to transmit a a virus that could be potentially lethal to them.

The good outweighs the bad. (Very clearly, IMO.) Yes, there are some unknowns, but nothing in life is certain.

Re: Israel’s Covid-19 boosters are preventing infections, new studies suggest

#190

Post by not_throw_away »

mrtesthah wrote: post #171
polote wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As an aside, the virus is actively changing over time, and delta variant is putting a lot more young people in the hospital. If this is the case, this is not hugely more than the previous variants as we can't see it on hospitalizations charts > Why wear your seatbelt if you can still die in a collision? Why not wear a helmet in a car I'm sure it would help in some cases ?

Wearing a helmet in a car is a PITA. Getting vaccinated causes literally no ongoing inconvenience 24-36 hours later. It's effectively a cost-free intervention with enormous upside in terms of protection from death and hospitalization. Helmets are better compared to interventions like masks and social distancing, as they must be used constantly. Edit: taking your analogy less literally, it seems the issue here is the…

I think this is a good of example of why Scott Adams says this about analogies:

Analogies: Analogies are good tools for explaining a concept to someone for the first time. But because analogies are imperfect they are the worst way to persuade. All discussions that involve analogies devolve into arguments about the quality of the analogy, not the underlying situation.

https://www.scottadamssays.com/2016/12/21/how-to-be-unpersua...

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