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How The Hell Is This My Fault?

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Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#181
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I generally do what I think is right in life Jesus I wish these self-important fucks would stop bragging about how fucking great they are. Actually, just stop talking, all of you. Shut up, and do some fucking work.

While you sit back and watch the show? At least he's _trying_ to do something to help EJ[1] and has enough strut to take this up to pg. It's called compassion, not self righteousness. Also, take your language back to 4chan whence you came. [1] Other than offering pitty.

Guess what? When you have a situation which involves a potential billion dollar company and all of the stakeholders that come with that money, the police, the mass media, and terrified victim, trying to sort out a traumatic incident that occurred weeks ago...the most you can do as someone not in the aforementioned groups is nothing

This is not a movie. This is not a case of a burning house and you're the only one in the vicinity to rush into and rescue a child stuck in his room. In fact, if there is a burning house and the firefighters have already arrived, your well intentioned actions may put their lives at risk

Not all "good" actions remain "good" in every context.

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#182

Sounds to me like Paul Graham has made a fairly fundamental and common mistake, which is to say believing the AirBnb people when they reassure him that everything is under control and there's no fire here. Paul, if you actually read the statements made by the CEO on news.ycombinator.com, it's very clear that AirBnb are the primary, if not only, ones at fault here. I don't want to call Paul a liar, since it seems like…

Air BNB is specifically not an insurrance company. They technically have no obligation to pay in the case of any damage. For them, the best possible course of action was to bury this case. However, now that it's come into the public light they're torn between (a) trying to re-iterate to everyone that they do not have liability and (b) trying to look good by doing the "Right Thing". As a business owner, I feel for the…

The insurance company technically had no obligation to be as humane as they were. That's the point :D

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#183
post #173

The way many people here jumped to conclusions after the initial AirBnB story based on almost no information is really disheartening. Insulting the founders of the company, the victim, and concocting conspiracy theories based on a few paragraphs of information with barely any evidence is a really poor way to conduct oneself. Most decent people wouldn't do it in face-to-face conversations without getting to know a per…

Please don't lead off with telling us not to jump to conclusions, and then laying out your conclusion for us. > I had the opportunity to hear the founders speak a number of times. They're one of the very few founders that are incredibly genuine about bringing a positive change into the lives of their customers. > * I don't know the victim but it's easy to misinterpret events after going through an emotional trauma. M…

He's giving you another damn perspective: that from his personal experience, he's seen the AirBnB folks to be good people and that maybe we don't have the full story; so it's unfair to launch an all out attack on them. And how do you respond? Yeah, well, good people can be bad, too! Now you're just finding any way to rationalize your jugement of the situation.

He said there are valid concerns here, but is urging people to consider that there may be other factors.

Come on, people.

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Air BNB is specifically not an insurrance company. They technically have no obligation to pay in the case of any damage. For them, the best possible course of action was to bury this case. However, now that it's come into the public light they're torn between (a) trying to re-iterate to everyone that they do not have liability and (b) trying to look good by doing the "Right Thing". As a business owner, I feel for the…

The insurance company technically had no obligation to be as humane as they were. That's the point :D

True. But the people getting the checks weren't writing blog posts warning people not to buy apartments in NYC either. I'm not saying Airbnb is right or wrong, but to make a matter like that a public spectacle might influence insurance companies to behave differently, not just Airbnb.

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#185

This is my little 2 cents on this whole fiasco that seems not to go away. All this would not have come to this if Airbnb guys asked themselves a simple question. How would I handle this if this happened to my sister of wife. The main problem is Airbnb had about a month to fix this before it became 'viral'. It was only the post by TC that made me realise this issue was about a month ago (30 days!). As a fan of Airbnb,…

So how would they help this person? Reimburse her? AirBnb is technically not liable for those damages right? So how much do they give her? If it's too little it might be insulting. Too much and people would still complain about irreparable emotional damage. They said they're trying to help catch the perpetrator right? In my eyes that's all they really can do and the only thing that matters. The damages are primarily…

> AirBnb is technically not liable for those damages right?

Totally irrelevant. This has obviously gone beyond "technical liability".

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#186
The tragedy about this is that everyone involved here could have done something to avoid this except maybe EJ.

In order of culpability, here are the mistakes they made:

AirBnB's clearly inexperienced leadership has done a horrible job at communication. Sadly, this makes any real action they have taken to help the victim irrelevant to the public. Then again, their business has a fundamental risk, one of crime, which they seem unprepared to address or mitigate. Given their past resourcefulness, I have a feeling they will find ways to improve their product to make this less likely. I am not so sure about their ability to improve their communication.

Michael Arrington's job is to draw more eyeballs to TechCrunch and he invariably picks stoking controversy over responsible journalism. If it wasn't already clear to everyone including pg that he will do this at any cost, it should be now. Michael could have done some real journalism and talked to the police to find out more details, probed AirBnB for more details up front and may be even the victim on the one hand. On the other hand he should certainly have avoided comparing AirBnB to scamville, I don't think anyone thinks AirBnB is scamming users. But that's just who he is. He also takes great pleasure in calling people names. Notice that his latest post about pg has "Liar" emblazoned on the top. Can't say I expected any different, given his past behavior but at least pg will remove his blinders now that Arrington is treating him exactly like he treats non-luminaries.

The fact that PG had to jump into the public fray may have seemed inevitable given AirBnB's incompetent response, but it is almost always a bad tactic to have multiple people presenting the public face of a company. Even minor differences between what they say will be highlighted and will cause more confusion. PG even made the tactical mistake of responding emotionally to Arrington's "make the story more interesting without giving a shit about anyone else" approach, but in the long run this is a good thing. As I said, he'll now remove his blinders about Arrington.

EJ is not at fault except that she should have known that she was taking this risk when she rented her home to complete strangers sight unseen. This may be a flaw in AirBnB's model and their lack of focus on safety on their site, but if EJ had been my 6' 5" wrestler brother, I'd have waited a sufficient amount of time before giving him a knock upside the head and asking him what he expected when he handed over keys to an apartment that held all his belongings to a complete stranger while he was abroad. If EJ were my sister I'd tell her the same thing, minus the knock upside the head!

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#187

Sounds to me like Paul Graham has made a fairly fundamental and common mistake, which is to say believing the AirBnb people when they reassure him that everything is under control and there's no fire here. Paul, if you actually read the statements made by the CEO on news.ycombinator.com, it's very clear that AirBnb are the primary, if not only, ones at fault here. I don't want to call Paul a liar, since it seems like…

Air BNB is specifically not an insurrance company. They technically have no obligation to pay in the case of any damage. For them, the best possible course of action was to bury this case. However, now that it's come into the public light they're torn between (a) trying to re-iterate to everyone that they do not have liability and (b) trying to look good by doing the "Right Thing". As a business owner, I feel for the…

The irony of course is that the story didn't go viral for almost a month after it was written. That was plenty of time for them to make things right, take good care of the woman, and get an NDA and non-disparagement agreement in place. Based on her account they didn't even attempt to do so. Instead they chose to "let it ride" and as a result have lost way more in goodwill than this could have ever cost them "making things right."

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've passed her contact info to PG This is the creepiest thing I've ever heard. She's had her personal space and privacy violated in a terrible way, and you're passing around her contact details? Did you ask her permission?

> She's had per personal space and privacy violated in a terrible way, and you're passing around her contact details? I passed her contact information to the one guy that I think can keep his head cool enough to solve this in a way that is beneficial to her. You may disagree with that but that's fine with me. > She mentioned in both blog posts that she is trying to keep her personal details private. Yes, and I helped…

That's not the right thing to do - it seems like you are just freaking her out more.

A better way would have been to pass PG's details to her.

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#189
To AirBnB:

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

Re: How The Hell Is This My Fault?

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> She's had per personal space and privacy violated in a terrible way, and you're passing around her contact details? I passed her contact information to the one guy that I think can keep his head cool enough to solve this in a way that is beneficial to her. You may disagree with that but that's fine with me. > She mentioned in both blog posts that she is trying to keep her personal details private. Yes, and I helped…

That's not the right thing to do - it seems like you are just freaking her out more. A better way would have been to pass PG's details to her.

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