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Star Citizen Progress Tracker v1.0

robertsspaceindustries.com

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Re: Star Citizen Progress Tracker v1.0

#181
post #76
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It adds a consequence to griefing/PVP. If you’re a pirate who has been to prison multiple times you really don’t want to go back… so your behavior is different.

Hot take: trying to appeal to both PvP and PvE players is the biggest mistake game designers make. History is littered with the corpses of "WoW killers" in the MMORPG genre and nearly all of them touted PvP as their killer feature, usually some form of world PvP. And it never works. Even WoW largely moved away from world PvP in favour of sandboxed PvP (ie arena, battlegrounds). This focus on PvP is my biggest concern…

> The reason it doesn't work is because of people. People do things in PvP because there are no consequences.

The reason so many games want "as open as possible" PvP as possible is because of people, too. There are plenty of people who's most fun in any multiplayer comes from acting upon other players and making other players miserable is a very "rewarding" action to them.

That's an entire quadrant of players (Killers) in Bartle's now classic diagram and of the studies that have been done in the past there's a pretty equal distribution of how people self-describe themselves to the four quadrants (and how their stats seem to align in MUDs that used to track such things). Assuming that hypothesis to hold, that's a fourth of the potential audience they lose if they don't have PvP at all, and within that quadrant it always seems like the most vocal in what they play is based on how "open" the PvP is and the raw statistics of the number of people they can act upon ("grief").

I get the impression that many of those vocal "Killer" players that strongly prefer open world PvP are possibly over-represented in MMO design efforts. Two of the quadrants ("Achiever" and "Explorer") are often pleased enough with single player games (and single player game design) to not even see a need for multiplayer games in their lives, and the final "Socializer" quadrant these days is just as often left by game designs to fall through the cracks to "non-games" like Second Life or Discord.

Re: Star Citizen Progress Tracker v1.0

#182
post #165
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making a computer or a display or many of the huge replicas in minecraft isn't creative. They are just technical achievements.

I agreed completely until I started playing Minecraft with kids. Once they taught me how to play, I got to see the amount of creativity within the game. From my perspective, it's a really amazing way to start instilling mathematical literacy in kids and the best part is that they have so much fun they don't even realize it. As an example, thanks to Minecraft, my five year old already has an understanding of exponents…

> thanks to Minecraft, my five year old already has an understanding of exponents.

Wait, how ?

Where are exponents used in Minecraft ?

Re: Star Citizen Progress Tracker v1.0

#183
post #82
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hot take: trying to appeal to both PvP and PvE players is the biggest mistake game designers make. History is littered with the corpses of "WoW killers" in the MMORPG genre and nearly all of them touted PvP as their killer feature, usually some form of world PvP. And it never works. Even WoW largely moved away from world PvP in favour of sandboxed PvP (ie arena, battlegrounds). This focus on PvP is my biggest concern…

What about Eve online?

It's a PvP game, and a brutal one. There's some token PvE, but mostly aimed at teaching new players the game.

Re: Star Citizen Progress Tracker v1.0

#184
post #52

Star Citizen is a cautionary tale about how too much money can be a curse. Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous came around at roughly the same time but Elite has been a complete game for years. Elite did things right in the sense that they released a complete game and added to it. I've seen videos on Star Citizen talking about new systems they're adding like being put in prison and escaping and all I can think of is tha…

No Man's Sky has come a long way and you can call it a complete game now but they seem to have pivoted somewhere along the way into focusing on base building, multi player aspects, etc (going after the younger minecraft crowd?). It's still fun but the planet variation, story and minute to minute gameplay is very shallow even after all this time. I find it hard to feel motivated by anything in the game. It is a great…

I have been waiting to play No Man's Sky for so long and after all the good stuff I've been reading about how much better it had gotten I just assumed it would be incredible and that I would love it. To my surprise, when I downloaded it on Game Pass - I was extremely disappointed it just felt so empty. I uninstalled it after like 2 hours.

Re: Star Citizen Progress Tracker v1.0

#185
post #26

Well at least this thing has reached v1.0 LOL Joke aside, I want to say something controversial here: I don't think the release date/progress matters much anymore for the dev team at this day and age. At least not as matter as it used to be when the game plan was just announced. The same point is somewhat true for their backers: they are not in a hurry as well, they want to (emotionally) see Star Citizen success one…

> Well at least this thing has reached v1.0 LOL

But now somebody has to support and update the progress tracker indefinitely...

Re: Star Citizen Progress Tracker v1.0

#186
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hot take: trying to appeal to both PvP and PvE players is the biggest mistake game designers make. History is littered with the corpses of "WoW killers" in the MMORPG genre and nearly all of them touted PvP as their killer feature, usually some form of world PvP. And it never works. Even WoW largely moved away from world PvP in favour of sandboxed PvP (ie arena, battlegrounds). This focus on PvP is my biggest concern…

I would counter this and say that my greatest time playing MMOs in my youth was the UO days where outside of cities, everything was pretty lawless. In the early stages you might run into a player killer intermittently while out mining or harvesting whatever other material or in a dungeon but the community formed around that aspect was really cool. There was a bounty hunting system where killed players could put cash…

> There was a bounty hunting system where killed players could put cash on the head of the killer.

What stops a griefer from just putting cash on the head of someone they want to torment?

Re: Star Citizen Progress Tracker v1.0

#187
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a problem across the artistic genres. Authors who become too famous to be edited often have a bad decline in their later years, because they really need to be edited. (One of the things I respect Larry Niven for is his insistence that he be edited, even though within his niche he reached the point where he could have done the same thing.) Movie directors that become too big to say no to often turn out to not qui…

Absolutely agreed. The other big example I can think of is Kojima, one of very few game directors I personally consider a true auteur. I just wish he still has people around him that could tell him, "So the player defeats the boss, learns about her genuinely heartbreaking tragic backstory as victim to vicious war crimes, and then... takes photos of her in lingerie? While she walks around and makes suggestive poses? I…

> and then... takes photos of her in lingerie?

That was a hidden easter egg - breaking the fourth wall and unrelated to the story and gameplay.

Re: Star Citizen Progress Tracker v1.0

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We'll see if they can generate money for the next 10 years, I hope they can. Even if they keep going to 10 years, they're doomed. To be relevant 10 years from now, SC is probably going to have to switch engines. That will probably mean starting from scratch on many game systems and assets. There's a reason you don't see many (or any?) successful games that have a 10+ year development time.

I don't know if they have to switch engines in ten years. You could have made a game in 1997 with Unreal-- I can verify this because I was in a meeting with a demo at Activision where we considered this-- and Unreal is still a viable engine in 2021. Game engines went through a period where they evolved very quickly, and they are still evolving. But the rate of change is slower, like word processors. It starts to make…

Wait, it's the same Unreal evolved over the years, rather than brand new versions started from scratch ?

Re: Star Citizen Progress Tracker v1.0

#189

How do they have so little done after so long? And with so much money? I understand game development is very difficult but I don’t think games normally take over 10 years to make.

Because they're redoing large chunks of the game every few years when the stuff already in is decided to be obsolete.

There are items on the progress tracker for replacing the rendering engine even now. It's insanity.

Re: Star Citizen Progress Tracker v1.0

#190
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agreed completely until I started playing Minecraft with kids. Once they taught me how to play, I got to see the amount of creativity within the game. From my perspective, it's a really amazing way to start instilling mathematical literacy in kids and the best part is that they have so much fun they don't even realize it. As an example, thanks to Minecraft, my five year old already has an understanding of exponents…

> thanks to Minecraft, my five year old already has an understanding of exponents. Wait, how ? Where are exponents used in Minecraft ?

... Think about it. Blocks are cubic. You lay 2 blocks by 2 blocks down, that's 4 blocks. If you add a second layer, you have 8 blocks. He probably meant something like this.

2^2 = 4

2^3 = 8

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