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Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

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Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#181

Post by goodpoint »

baybal2 wrote: post #166
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10,000PSI hydraulics are rapidly becoming cookie cutter commodity parts. Once you have the supply chain for all the little crap that nickles and dimes you the rest is a lot cheaper. Having industry expertise at working at those pressures really has a huge multiplier effect on everything else. Building a system to plumb stuff from A to B at a pressure nobody uses is expensive. Calling up a sales rep and asking for sli…

How many people would be ready to drive a hydrogen bomb?

More than a gasoline bomb, hopefully. Gasoline is more dangerous.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#182

Post by JPKab »

_ph_ wrote: post #176
KMnO4 wrote: post #12

Since “tank” isn’t a unit of measure, I suppose anyone could trivially break the record with a larger tank. From the article: > The Nexo consumed 6.27kg of H2 For comparison with the other production H2 cars: Toyota Mirai: 5.6kg Honda Clarity: 5.0kg Seems like a promising technology. My understanding is that the current blocker is infrastructure. It’s hard to pressurize up to 10,000 PSI, so many facilities are only a…

Beyond the missing expensive infrastructure, the big problem is energy efficiency. Moving forward, we have to switch every energy production to renewables. But for the same amount of electric energy produced, an electric car gets about 3x the mileage than producing "green" hydrogen and powering fuel cell cars with it. Hydrogen means at least 3x the electricity cost and for many years to come, we are going to struggle…

The key to a hydrogen economy will rely on creation of hydrogen in locations with extremely abundant electricity like Iceland. The next step is shipping it like it's LNG.

Not a small order.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#183

Post by usrusr »

new_realist wrote: post #128
SigmundA wrote: post #117

This is at 66.9 km/h (40 mph) in order to greatly increase its range due to lower drag compared to normal highway speeds. As a comparison a Tesla Model 3 got 975km (606 miles) at 40 km/h (25 mph) [1]. I can't seem to find any range tests at a similar speed as the Nexo. I found an EPA dyno test for the Model 3 at 77 km/h (48mph) for 708 km (440 miles). The Nexo and Model 3 have similar dimension and weight and price,…

The Nexo is much less aerodynamic than the Model 3. One is an SUV/CUV, the other is a low sedan which looks like wet poop. The Nexo has more frontal area and a higher CD. And the Tesla is known for rigging its EPA tests for higher, but illusory, numbers.

Pretty much everything is aerodynamic at 25mph when comparing to something else at 40mph...

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#184

Post by cptskippy »

contriban wrote: post #52
KMnO4 wrote: post #12

Since “tank” isn’t a unit of measure, I suppose anyone could trivially break the record with a larger tank. From the article: > The Nexo consumed 6.27kg of H2 For comparison with the other production H2 cars: Toyota Mirai: 5.6kg Honda Clarity: 5.0kg Seems like a promising technology. My understanding is that the current blocker is infrastructure. It’s hard to pressurize up to 10,000 PSI, so many facilities are only a…

> anyone could trivially break the record "Make it bigger" doesn't really work in cars, otherwise range anxiety wouldn't exist as a concept. The record still makes sense because the Hyundai Nexo is commercially available and it's not a prototype with a comically-large just for the record tank.

> "Make it bigger" doesn't really work in cars, otherwise range anxiety wouldn't exist as a concept.

Sure it does. Just look at Tesla, at the time EVs had 24kwh or smaller batteries and they more than doubled that to give reasonable ranges.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#185

Post by bryanlarsen »

hwillis wrote: post #167
bryanlarsen wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by "electric" you mean "Prius", you're right. Tesla's and similar cars have great acceleration because they support massive currents at high voltages. They need this to support fast charging, the incremental cost of adding a high torque motor is small. Hydrogen cars have tiny batteries that don't need to support fast charging. Like a Prius.

> Hydrogen cars have tiny batteries that don't need to support fast charging. Because that's what they think consumers want, not because of technological limitations. Size is not a requirement for high power batteries. The Porsche 918 has a 6.8 kWh battery that can do 210 kW. That's ~31 kW per kWh, compared to a top-end Model S at ~6 kW/kWh.

Yes, a $800K Hydrogen car would probably have a small but high power battery. But Nexo's and Mirai's don't.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#186

Post by [deleted] »

SigmundA wrote: post #180
new_realist wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Nexo is much less aerodynamic than the Model 3. One is an SUV/CUV, the other is a low sedan which looks like wet poop. The Nexo has more frontal area and a higher CD. And the Tesla is known for rigging its EPA tests for higher, but illusory, numbers.

Ok so go to the Model Y which is slightly heavier (Actually closer to the Nexo) and the worse aerodynamics than the Model 3 should have minimal effect if hypermiling at low speed, which also helps the Nexo vs Model 3. Model Y will blow the doors off the Nexo in performance due to much larger electric motors.

[deleted]

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#187

Post by londons_explore »

sandworm101 wrote: post #66
alex_young wrote: post #62

Hydrogen fuel is still a fossil fuel byproduct right? I’m not sure what the point of this is. It sure doesn’t seem like a green technology at this point.

It is, but it doesn't have to be. It is possible to make H2 from H20 and sunlight. At the moment there is little market for such "green" hydrogen but the hope is that hydrogen-based transportation will create that market. Imho I cannot afford to be a market leaders in this field. Until H2 is available everywhere, including at remote locations during Canadian winters, I'll have to stick to gas stations. (I have yet to…

Handling very low temperatures isn't very hard if the car is designed with that in mind.

It would simply have a small heater and insulation around the battery. A 3 inch thick layer of insulation around the battery should keep the heating power to 10 watts or so to keep the battery at -10*c. A 70kwh battery will last 7000 hours supplying 10 watts, or about a year. Longer if it isn't -50 every day.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#188

Post by danogentili »

JPKab wrote: post #182
_ph_ wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beyond the missing expensive infrastructure, the big problem is energy efficiency. Moving forward, we have to switch every energy production to renewables. But for the same amount of electric energy produced, an electric car gets about 3x the mileage than producing "green" hydrogen and powering fuel cell cars with it. Hydrogen means at least 3x the electricity cost and for many years to come, we are going to struggle…

The key to a hydrogen economy will rely on creation of hydrogen in locations with extremely abundant electricity like Iceland. The next step is shipping it like it's LNG. Not a small order.

> The key to a hydrogen economy will rely on wasting energy on creation of hydrogen in locations with extremely abundant electricity.

Honestly, this sounds just as bad as setting up bitcoin mines in places with high rates of renewables, to avoid directly throwing tons of CO2 in the atmosphere. Even if you have loads of clean energy, that's no reason to waste it when there are more efficient ways of using it (lithium batteries, PoS).

Not to mention the fact that every watt of wasted green energy can't used to replace a watt of coal energy.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#189

Post by 0x64 »

beckingz wrote: post #137
542458 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Make it bigger” does work, but it increasingly stops resembling a car. Check out the range this one can get on a single tank of hydrogen! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas-Centaur I don’t know what you’d consider the max range here to be, but it’s definitely better than 887km.

I think the space shuttle may win for most kilometers traveled on a single hydrogen tank.

Shuttle had solid-fuel boosters and hypergolic thrusters for on-orbit maneuvering. The Delta IV Heavy, on the other hand, is a fully hydrogen-powered rocket: three common cores, with an RL10-powered upper stage. It also launched the Parker Solar Probe, which has been doing rounds around the sun for a while now.

Re: Hyundai Nexo sets new world record 887.5 km travelled on single tank of hydrogen

#190

Post by SigmundA »

GuB-42 wrote: post #97
MattRix wrote: post #16

What is the appeal of a hydrogen car vs an eletric car? The range appears to be similar, but being able to charge at home is so much more convenient.

Hydrogen has a great energy density, that's why it is used in rockets. It may have similar range as battery electric cars but it can scale better. It can be refueled in minutes, like gas cars. And the economy is based on using "waste" renewable energy. The problem is that solar panels and wind turbines don't produce energy when we need it the most (see: duck curve). The idea is to store that energy as hydrogen and us…

Electrons are more energy dense than hydrogen unfortunately you need a heavy battery to store and use them properly.

However hydrogen needs high pressure tanks and fuels cells to store and use it properly so there is basically no energy density advantage right now in a car, both fuel cells and batteries are increasing in energy density due to R&D not sure which will win out it the end. My current opinion is batteries are simpler in every way and have good enough energy density.

All the current cars also need a lithium buffer battery because the fuel cell can not put out enough burst power nor do regenerative braking.

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