What nobody says about startup moms • Hacker News Board

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#181

Post by scooble » Mon, May 03, 2021, 9:52 PM UTC

gazzini wrote: post #110

feoren wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, as a busy new dad dipping my toes in the startup world, I was cringing the entire time wondering why they seem to assume this only applies to women.

I quit my startup & picked up a boring, stable job to be a better dad a couple years ago, so I feel this too. If the article said it’s only hard for moms, then I’d disagree with it... but it doesn’t. It’s just critiquing the assumption that every mom wants the same thing. These assumptions form social pressures & impact career decisions, and she’s pointing out that you don’t have to struggle with that decision in the…

> If the article said it’s only hard for moms, then I’d disagree with it... but it doesn’t.

I took the authors claim that dads were less interested in spending time with their children to suggest that this wasn’t such an issue for dads.

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#182

Post by concordDance » Mon, May 03, 2021, 9:53 PM UTC

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #158

causality0 wrote: post #145

We can’t expect more women to succeed in the startup world until we’re able to talk honestly about how much harder startups are for those who want to spend a lot of time with their kids. I think the expectation of being able to do both is quite unfair, at least the expectation of being able to do both well. There are many things that aren't compatible with being a cofounder. For example, you're not going to start a s…

You can be a Marine rifleman, NFL quarterback or EMT _and then be_ a successful startup founder. You can also be a parent _and then_ start a startup. There's no age limit and kids eventually grow up and move out. Unless we're relegating/gatekeeping 50+ year olds from starting startups? Especially during retirement, there's still a lot of time to do stuff.

Time? Yes. Energy and mental agility? Probably not.

The vast majority of people seem to live in denial that ageing is a fact of life and that you get slower and less energetic as you age and that you start ageing immediately (at 20 you're already losing somethings you had when you were younger), not when you're 65.

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#183

Post by bradleyjg » Mon, May 03, 2021, 9:57 PM UTC

c22 wrote: post #173

causality0 wrote: post #145

We can’t expect more women to succeed in the startup world until we’re able to talk honestly about how much harder startups are for those who want to spend a lot of time with their kids. I think the expectation of being able to do both is quite unfair, at least the expectation of being able to do both well. There are many things that aren't compatible with being a cofounder. For example, you're not going to start a s…

Can you be an EMT and spend a lot of time with your kids though? Startup founder is a particularly hairy role to solve this for, since it is self-directed, but in general this is a real problem that exists across our whole society. Jobs should be flexible enough for people to spend a lot of time with their kids--even high availability/stress jobs--because it is a huge benefit to society when kids are able to spend a…

What’s wrong with some roles just not being compatible with being a parent of small children? It’s not like anyone spends their entire life as a parent of young children. Just do that role before, after, or both. Take something less demanding for the years in between.

To the extent that’s impossible because you “fall off the track,” I agree that’s an problem.

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#184

Post by bonestamp2 » Mon, May 03, 2021, 9:57 PM UTC

jonny_eh wrote: post #171

dexterdog wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of that is because we hear so many successful business people portrayed as also being great parents. I have seen so many of those that I knew first-hand to be fabrications that I just assume them to be false now.

Or they have a spouse doing all the heavy lifting at home.

Exactly. My boss's wife is at home doing all the kid stuff while both my wife and I work. Yet he talks to me like he has the exact same challenges.

Just because someone has kids doesn't mean they're spending the same time with them... also age of the kids matter. High school kids don't need as much help with things as little kids.

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#185

Post by denimnerd42 » Mon, May 03, 2021, 9:58 PM UTC

scooble wrote: post #181

gazzini wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I quit my startup & picked up a boring, stable job to be a better dad a couple years ago, so I feel this too. If the article said it’s only hard for moms, then I’d disagree with it... but it doesn’t. It’s just critiquing the assumption that every mom wants the same thing. These assumptions form social pressures & impact career decisions, and she’s pointing out that you don’t have to struggle with that decision in the…

> If the article said it’s only hard for moms, then I’d disagree with it... but it doesn’t. I took the authors claim that dads were less interested in spending time with their children to suggest that this wasn’t such an issue for dads.

Right, that's what rubbed me the wrong way.

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#186

Post by FooBarBizBazz » Mon, May 03, 2021, 9:58 PM UTC

jonny_eh wrote: post #171

dexterdog wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of that is because we hear so many successful business people portrayed as also being great parents. I have seen so many of those that I knew first-hand to be fabrications that I just assume them to be false now.

Or they have a spouse doing all the heavy lifting at home.

Yep. And, as 90% of startups fail, those spouses also need to bring money to the table.

It's not a great deal to raise the kids and support the household while your absent S.O. spends all their time trying/failing to become some V.C.'s lottery ticket.

(I'm not talking about CEOs of well-funded startups. I'm talking about all the people who throw their lives away chasing that dream in circles around the startup-industrial complex.)

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#187

Post by rainyMammoth » Mon, May 03, 2021, 10:00 PM UTC

aklemm wrote: post #147

Kids are a distraction to intense work. At the same time, becoming a parent is a potential growth experience that is unrivaled and brings value. Healthy kids are a value to society. Non-parents benefit from a society full of healthy children. Parents should be rewarded--or at least equally as compensated--with pay and/or status that tracks with the successes those unburdened with parenting achieve.

Most people have kids because they see it as a positive personal trade off (when you are older and you have a family that will come to visit you for example). Most people are not thinking about the benefits to society when they decide to have kids.

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#188

Post by Der_Einzige » Mon, May 03, 2021, 10:02 PM UTC

jakear wrote: post #43

ravenstine wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of that comes from parents often expressing all the negatives of parenthood rather than the positives. Even the ones who love spending time with their kids, in my experience, talk more about how much attention the kids need, taking them to school, the diaper changes, the crying, and so on. This isn't to say that all parents are like this; I've met some really passionate parents, and my parents relished…

I think that’s generally true of all descriptions of activities — we simply prefer to list the bad, as commiserating is more socially acceptable than “bragging” about how nice something is. See also: chewing fat over how work sucks rather than how happy you are to be working on interesting stuff, “the ol ball and chain” not how nice it is to have stable relationship, “fucking landlords taking all my money” not conven…

This is why "critical thinking" is overrated. Becoming good at critical thinking means that you become good at critique - the process of describing the flaws of something.

This is the issue with the modern left in america. They do a great job of highlighting injustice (through teaching many critical thinking skills as part of "wokism") but then the solutions given are so poorly articulated that they're laughed out of the room. Most people know they are exploited - few know how to escape it. I'd rather not even know I'm exploited if I have no way out (you know, ignorance is bliss)

You highlighted this with our own culture in small acts - but it's just as apparent with our body politic as well...

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#189

Post by usrusr » Mon, May 03, 2021, 10:03 PM UTC

filleduchaos wrote: post #163

hvaoc wrote: post #54

One of the biggest issue with all this is "We lost the community in the pursuit of individuality". It takes a village to raise a child. I grew up in kind a commune. Most of the days kids would be on the streets playing, eat / sleep in their neighbours house. Moms were able to manage house as stay at home moms (hardest yet under-appreciated job) relatively better because of this community care provided for children. E…

One of my strongest socioeconomic stances is that the nuclear family was a mistake.

But the opposite all too often results in a situation where family trees become power structures and that's how you time-travel back into the middle ages.

Re: What nobody says about startup moms

#190

Post by kelnos » Mon, May 03, 2021, 10:03 PM UTC

worik wrote: post #129

parineum wrote: post #86

It strikes me that there is some kind of cognitive dissonance that prevents people from recognizing their time as a commodity. I understand and support the push to normalize women in the workplace in leadership positions but there seems to be a failure to recognize the cost. I think the "traditional" family roles of mother stays home and father works are outdated but I think the train goes off the tracks when people…

I think the problem is different. Nobody should work that hard. Not just for the sake of our children, but yes for their sake. But for our sake, for the sake of everybody. We all need to spend more time working on our relationships, smelling the flowers, tasting the tastes. We have one life and one life only. Getting into a competition about how we waste it on commerce is tragic. Some people feel a need to work work…

I think the armchair mental illness diagnosis is a bit much, but otherwise agree.

It's funny to consider that futurists of the early/mid 20th century expected that automation would take over most jobs and that people would have much more leisure time. If anything, the opposite has happened, with unskilled workers needing to hold more than one job just to get by, and many skilled workers -- especially salaried workers -- expected to put in many more than 40 hours a week in order to boost company productivity without increasing labor cost.

And the weird thing is that most people seem to think that the meaning of life is work, and without work, people are rudderless and dull. It's really disheartening the number of people I talk to about my desire for early retirement, and the first objection they have is, "won't you be bored without a job?" As if I can't find enough hobbies to do to fill my time. I already don't have enough time for my hobbies, and work is the reason!

Many parents say they work to give their children a better life. And sure, their kids might grow up having more comfort and fewer unmet wants than they did growing up. And the kids might have better jobs prospects when they become adults. But those job prospects probably involve similar or longer working hours as the parents'! Even if that comes with greater earning potential, it seems like a questionable trade.