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Proposed acquisition of ARM Limited by NVIDIA: public interest intervention

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Re: Proposed acquisition of ARM Limited by NVIDIA: public interest intervention

#181

Post by LatteLazy »

nabla9 wrote: post #154

ARM deal has a condition: > The proposed transaction is subject to customary closing conditions, including the receipt of regulatory approvals for the U.K., China, the European Union and the United States. Completion of the transaction is expected to take place in approximately 18 months. Any one of these 4 regulators can still stop the sale.

I'm confused why China get a say? ARM is UK, Softbank is Japan and Nvidia is US, why do the Chinese have a claim? Is it just because no one wants to upset them?

Re: Proposed acquisition of ARM Limited by NVIDIA: public interest intervention

#182

Post by ClumsyPilot »

willvarfar wrote: post #140
tokyojoe wrote: post #52

The semiconductor supply chain is now almost completely disaggregated ie everyone specialises in just a small part of the value chain. ARM’s speciality is in CPU design and it has carved out for itself the enviable position of being the defacto standard for mobile applications - almost every single phone on the planet has ARM processor(s) running it. And their products are in dozens of other end applications segments…

> Would we knowingly allow Rolls-Royce Jet Engines to be flogged off? Not quite a flogging off, but the MiG 15 engine was a copy of the Rolls Royce Nene engine which a soviet trade delegation won in a bet on a game of billiards.

Amazing, i never knew that.

Admittedly, that was 1946, before the cold war really began

Re: Proposed acquisition of ARM Limited by NVIDIA: public interest intervention

#183

Post by ClumsyPilot »

klelatti wrote: post #179
nottorp wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about more basic things: From now on, every ARM processor costs $40 per chip to license. Except, of course, those made by NVidia. or From now on, all improvements to the reference ARM architecture will only be available in NVidia chips for the first two years. Afterwards they'll be available for licensing at the current costs. Those are monopoly issues. And now a national security issue: From now on, $RANDOM_EURO…

Which is why there are distinct competition investigations going on in UK, EU and elsewhere. I think you're overdoing the last point: there is lots of key technology licensed from US firms and no-one in the UK thinks that this is a major national security issue. Much more likely that there is a specific issue that UK government has identified that poses a realistic problem for UK security services.

" no-one in the UK thinks that this is a major national security issue."

Citation needed

Re: Proposed acquisition of ARM Limited by NVIDIA: public interest intervention

#184

Post by ClumsyPilot »

michaelt wrote: post #89
bserge wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that how it would be? So, like AMD and ATi? Damn, that's kind of sad.

Who can say? But the British government has experience, from the Kraft purchase of Cadbury, that even if the buyers promise to keep jobs in the UK and product quality high, once the deal goes through they can renege on those promises instantly with no negative consequences.

Shouod make them sign a EULA styke agrement where you could loose what you bought at any time without getting your money or data back.

Re: Proposed acquisition of ARM Limited by NVIDIA: public interest intervention

#185

Post by fomine3 »

lend000 wrote: post #153
tokyojoe wrote: post #52

The semiconductor supply chain is now almost completely disaggregated ie everyone specialises in just a small part of the value chain. ARM’s speciality is in CPU design and it has carved out for itself the enviable position of being the defacto standard for mobile applications - almost every single phone on the planet has ARM processor(s) running it. And their products are in dozens of other end applications segments…

I may be ignorant, but aren't ARM designed CPU's (like the A78) miles behind their most advanced licensees, like Apple with the M1/A12? Isn't most of their value just riding on licenses of their established instruction set?

Arm's own Cortex/Neoverse is now getting powerful, but Apple's design is the king.

Re: Proposed acquisition of ARM Limited by NVIDIA: public interest intervention

#186

Post by fomine3 »

valdiorn wrote: post #74
klelatti wrote: post #13

I've been struggling to understand why Nvidia's takeover of Arm might be a UK national security issue (the competition case is quite clear but separate). I'm guessing though that Arm collaborates with UK intelligence agencies and that that collaboration might be jeopardised with the Nvidia takeover (in a way that it was not with the Softbank takeover). Does anyone have any further insights?

The current silicon chip shortage is showing just how dependent we are on chips, and while Arm doesn't have their own fabs, they are an important part of that ecosystem. There's a good chance that the current drought may play a role in US decisions on dealing with the China/Taiwan issue, if China shows aggression there is now a clear national security incentive for the US (and other countries, for that matter) to int…

IP is important, but manufacturer can just use stolen/expired IP in emergency situation, meanwhile fabs can't be stolen.

Re: Proposed acquisition of ARM Limited by NVIDIA: public interest intervention

#187

Post by hellotomyrars »

jorvi wrote: post #134
Vvector wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The companies that directly compete with Nvidia (AMD & Intel) are not ARM customers. ARM's biggest customers are mobile phones, which could benefit from an Nvidia GPU

Considering how well Apple's M1 is performing, I suspect within 10 years the majority of new desktops and laptops sold will be ARM-based, with both Intel and AMD having to either adapt or languish.

I think this is accurate if we see a substantial uptake of cloud/remote services for what are currently the most common high demand compute consumer devices (Game consoles + PC). ARM is already proving to be a winner in the datacenter as it becomes available so it seems all but inevitable.

I think the overall trend is still accurate and in either case ARM + Nvidia is (or would be) a compelling provider of hardware but the segment of the market that needs/relies on X86 architecture does seem to be shrinking.

Re: Proposed acquisition of ARM Limited by NVIDIA: public interest intervention

#188

Post by fomine3 »

martin8412 wrote: post #44
toyg wrote: post #11

“On national security grounds”...? Why would NVidia, a US corp, be more of a security problem than a Japanese one? If it’s just a matter of commercial overreliance on a single supplier, I find the “National security” bit to be somewhat specious.

Have you seen the foreign policies of Japan vs. the US? Japan is entirely more reliable than the US where the foreign policies can change at a whim every four years.

Yeah because Japan is partially subordinated by US

Re: Proposed acquisition of ARM Limited by NVIDIA: public interest intervention

#189

Post by hellotomyrars »

foobarian wrote: post #117
CalChris wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moreover, if the UK had a strategic leverage objection why didn't they register that objection at that original sale to Softbank?

I'm no politician but that promise to double the local workforce in Cambridge definitely caught my eye as something that would play really well in that arena. Kind of like how the Foxconn plant got built in the United States.

Well, kind of got built. Foxconn got the money (in the form of major tax breaks) sure , but the promises haven't really panned out. Not that this is an atypical story of course.

Credit to Wisconsin for at least pretending to hold them somewhat accountable by cutting off the gravy train.

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