'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#181

Post by Aunche » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 6:31 PM UTC

philsnow wrote: post #167

Aunche wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this a CCP talking point? If anything, the fact that Western HN commenters can't differentiate Hong Kong and the CCP actually paints the CCP as less violent than they actually are.

> the fact that Western HN commenters can't differentiate Hong Kong and the CCP This is not a fact. Do you have a citation? edit: it's also a pretty vague statement that could be satisfied by finding any two people who "can't differentiate" between HK and the CCP. You didn't say "the majority of Western HN commenters".

The comment I replied to was equating my defense of the Hong Kong police as "a CCP talking point." How else am I supposed to interpret it?

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#182

Post by bosswipe » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 6:34 PM UTC

Aunche wrote: post #102

Der_Einzige wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it isn't. The people of Myanmar have been sharing lots and lots of videos and media showing china has sent police officers and soldiers to the military government to keep order. It's totally in the CCP playbook to replace local police with their own cadres.

Again, complete hearsay that China is supporting the military coup. They had good relations with incumbent government due to the belt and road initiative.

CCP saw democracy in Burma as the West gaining influence in the region.

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#183

Post by philsnow » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 6:34 PM UTC

tablespoon wrote: post #104

I've been on a bit of an youtube archiving kick lately. Does anyone know of a good list of youtube videos that were uploaded during the protests (e.g. documenting the protest, police brutality, etc)? I'm probably too late to the party though, since I understand a lot of protesters took down their social media uploads in support of the protests after the national security law was enacted.

https://imgur.com/user/SavingHongKong has a lot, not just of the protests, though.

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#184

Post by tablespoon » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 6:37 PM UTC

praptak wrote: post #176

brundolf wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fragility of the CPC and its fear in being portrayed in any negative light knows no limits. We can only hope that will be its downfall.

> We can only hope that will be its downfall. Be careful what you wish for. Toppling a horrible government does not always solve problems. I'm not saying we should just throw the oppressed under the bus to get stability, but an actual downfall of CCP would probably be like Saddam Hussein only exponentially worse.

> Be careful what you wish for. Toppling a horrible government does not always solve problems. I'm not saying we should just throw the oppressed under the bus to get stability, but an actual downfall of CCP would probably be like Saddam Hussein only exponentially worse.

I'm not so sure about that. Iraq has an unstable ethnic configuration that the US was in the position to preserve for dubious geopolitical reasons. If it had been allowed to fragment along those lines, toppling Saddam would have probably gone better. China does have some minority ethnic regions, but I doubt anyone would care if they broke away except Han Chinese nationalists. I'd say it's break up would be more like the Soviet Union's, except it would probably go better since the Chinese economy is far more competitive.

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#185

Post by runarberg » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 6:38 PM UTC

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #165

toiletfuneral wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

which party do I vote for if I want to stop US imperialism? which party do I vote for if I want MFA? Its not the Republicans, and its definitely not the Democrats. Its no conspiracy theory to say the duopoly shuts down a lot of issues from being ever being addressed

Why are there no US political parties advocating for the dissolution of the US?

Well there is the Aloha ʻĀina Party that seeks Hawaiian sovereignty, Several Cascadian independence movements that seek to seceded the Cascadian bioregion from the US. There is the Second Vermont Republic. Puerto Rico has a few parties advocating for independence, as are parties that advocate for Samoan unification.

I’m less familiar with the federal level, but I wouldn’t be surprised to find the dissolution of the US (or at least the defederation in favor of a decentralized union) on the political left including several socialist and anarchist parties.

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#186

Post by Aunche » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 6:39 PM UTC

skosch wrote: post #121

Aunche wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That tweet is exactly what I mean by hearsay. A few clips cherrypicked from thousands of hours of footage, showing a police officer speaking a few words in the second most popular language in the area is not evidence that they're undercover Chinese officers.

"Second most popular language in the area" is a gross distortion of reality. It would make zero sense for a local police officer to choose to yell at local protestors or local colleagues in a non-native language that carries significant stigma in HK.

It's not a "gross distortion of reality" to question a interpretation a clip in a way that you disagree with, especially since you lack the context as well. It doesn't change how little evidence there is that Chinese officers were secretly policing Hong Kong.

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#187

Post by tablespoon » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 6:41 PM UTC

chinathrow1029 wrote: post #112

tablespoon wrote: post #104

I've been on a bit of an youtube archiving kick lately. Does anyone know of a good list of youtube videos that were uploaded during the protests (e.g. documenting the protest, police brutality, etc)? I'm probably too late to the party though, since I understand a lot of protesters took down their social media uploads in support of the protests after the national security law was enacted.

Here’s a good place to start: https://www.truth-hk.com/violences/categories/violence

Nice troll.

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#188

Post by frenchy » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 6:41 PM UTC

d0mine wrote: post #172

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they'll figure out that splitting into two parties and exchanging highest power between the two every few years while still colectively controlling everything of value is way more resilient system This requires rule of law to function. Otherwise, one set of elites won't trust handing power to the other. The breathless levels of corruption at the top of the CCP would also have to go, which is a difficult transition…

You are assuming that the corresponding figureheads would have a real power, they are not. Do you think it is a coincidence that actors, reality tv stars elected to the highest political seats? A monkey would perform as well if not better.

> actors, reality tv stars

Do you think the deep state is responsible for this? I don't think there's any evidence to inicate that these elected idiots aren't actually popular. The same thing happend in the Philippines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Estrada). Idiots electing idiots they like is a tale as old as democracy.

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#189

Post by Twaway45609 » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 6:42 PM UTC

jonathannat wrote: post #56

MsMowz wrote: post #44

I'll try to strictly source my remarks and refrain from commenting on the political content of the HK demonstrations to keep this purely factual, as I think this could be a rather controversial thread; however, it's interesting how different the reception to these demonstrations is to the reception to the US Capitol riots and the BLM demonstrations of last year. Hong Kong demonstrators have stormed government buildin…

Difference: US riot - citizens who enjoy democratic freedom protested against republic/democratic government. protest got violent, government handled it. Hong Kong riot - citizens who enjoy(ed) democratic freedom protested against encroaching dictatorship. protest was peaceful, but then turned violent when police faking as protestors started violence. protest got violent, government handled it (openly and in secret).…

I think the main difference is that the chinese would not dare to dock their aircraft carrier in new york, while the US did so to provoke the chinese communust party in hong kong.

This is all about american interests and destabilizing china ir other countries.

I wonder what will happen in q few years. Will americans accept that another super power will dictate them what to do like the US currently does to their allies: europe cant build a pipeline to russia, in order to protect american interests in ukraine and poland. Europe cant use chinese hardware, while its proven that just a few years ago the americans listened to all communication of angela merkel, europe cant do business with the russians because they are sanctioned, nor with iran, etc...

Re: 'Do Not Split': A Hong Kong protest film [video]

#190

Post by jkingsbery » Wed, Mar 24, 2021, 6:43 PM UTC

bosswipe wrote: post #157

scotty79 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fragility of the CPC and its fear in being portrayed in any negative light knows no limits. That's because they have single party system. Eventually they'll figure out that splitting into two parties and exchanging highest power between the two every few years while still colectively controlling everything of value is way more resilient system. Then they will be able to let themselves to be hated because half o…

> while still colectively controlling everything of value If this post is meant as a whataboutist critique of US democracy then this line gives it away as over the top conspiracy theory. Who exactly is controlling everything of value in this theory?

I read this similarly. In the US, there are lots of things that the government doesn't control, and even for things the government does control the federal, state and local governments can be controlled by different parties that have conflicting priorities. Also, the way that the political parties are structured in the US is very different, where there are national party organizations, but also local party organizations that do as much influencing over the national parties as vice versa.

To reduce the difference between China's political situation and the US's to be the difference between 2 parties and 1 is not accurate.