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The Virus Changed. Now We Must ‘Get to Zero’ or Face Catastrophe

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Re: The Virus Changed. Now We Must ‘Get to Zero’ or Face Catastrophe

#181

Post by dennis_jeeves »

sto_hristo wrote: post #95
threeseed wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lockdowns work. End of story. Melbourne, Australia had a 4-month lockdown which turned an exponentially-rising 500+ cases a day scenario into elimination. Saving thousands of lives. No other place has managed to do something similar and it shows hotel quarantine of foreign arrivals, aggressive contact-tracing, mandatory mask-wearing, social distancing and lockdowns work. The Swedish laissez-faire approach does not.

Australia is big and sparely populated compared to other countries that implemented full lockdowns. Also, it's summer down there, with heat waves, etc. All of this diminishes virus' ability to spread. It's very situational. Australia is not doing anything more special than other countries. You gotta look into the meaning of these numbers and just the value. Lockdowns do work, technically speaking, but not in the long…

I came here to mention the summer part. But you already mentioned it.

Heretic view - there is no new virus to start with. Some places seem to have declared zero flu cases this year. Go figure.

Re: The Virus Changed. Now We Must ‘Get to Zero’ or Face Catastrophe

#182

Post by dennis_jeeves »

kiba wrote: post #16
zpeti wrote: post #12

China and Vietnam get the virus under control by using centralised quarantines. I wonder how many people supporting the sentiments of this article would be ok with someone arriving at their doorstep, taking you to a prison basically whether you agree or not, and quaranteening you there for at least 10 days with other covid people. Perhaps they also take your family too, in case they are also infected. Are you willing…

Yes. If it means I can actually go to the gym and workout, meet my friends, etc. I am tired of wearing the god damn masks, having to worry about my elderly parents, Are you tired of the god damn pandemic? I know I am. Because we already have no freedom.

>Are you tired of the god damn pandemic? I know I am. Because we already have no freedom.

Well, that for you are ordinary people (govts just echo their sentiments). They will enslave you for their benefit ( real or imaginary). They will take away your freedom under the guise of concern for your health.

Re: The Virus Changed. Now We Must ‘Get to Zero’ or Face Catastrophe

#183

Post by jeofken »

Shacklz wrote: post #66
jeofken wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Denmark’s fur industry is old, but now also dead. Morally, raising mink for fur is equal to eating meat or consuming dairy products.

> Morally, raising mink for fur is equal to eating meat or consuming dairy products. Meat and dairy products feed humans, which is a necessity (that, in our day and age, may or may not be achieved by other means while still maintaining a healthy diet), while fur is a luxury product - by no means necessary. It isn't even a byproduct, the fur is the sole reasons the minks are killed. I can't even fathom how you can see…

Humans in our age can live without fur and without meat and dairy. They are both nice luxuries. Enjoy it, but let’s put logical inconsistencies to the side

Re: The Virus Changed. Now We Must ‘Get to Zero’ or Face Catastrophe

#184

Post by jeofken »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #159
Shacklz wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Morally, raising mink for fur is equal to eating meat or consuming dairy products. Meat and dairy products feed humans, which is a necessity (that, in our day and age, may or may not be achieved by other means while still maintaining a healthy diet), while fur is a luxury product - by no means necessary. It isn't even a byproduct, the fur is the sole reasons the minks are killed. I can't even fathom how you can see…

Food is a necessity, but red meat is just one way to meet that necessity. There's a number of natural and synthetic substitutes that can accomplish the same goals (calories, protein, etc) Clothing is a necessity, but fur is just one way to meet that necessity. There's a number of natural and synthetic substitutes that can accomplish the same goals (avoiding nudity when it would be considered immoral, staying warm in…

> Is fur just worse because it serves as a status symbol in addition to the practical purposes?

Yeah, it’s easy to be against it and feel good about yourself without making a sacrifice in your life. Wear fur and eat meat folks, but stop with logical inconsistencies!

Re: The Virus Changed. Now We Must ‘Get to Zero’ or Face Catastrophe

#185

Post by 74d-fe6-2c6 »

> Moreover, our politicians have placed their bets on two high-tech, two-shot and costly vaccines, Pfizer and Moderna. They require refrigeration that half the world can’t afford.

> American science has given us a Lamborghini when what the world needs is a Toyota

There is no Pfizer vaccine ... it's German science from Biontech. The author doesn't even get this detail right. Why should I take his panicky opinion serious?

> They actually represent an entirely new pandemic.

This is semantics abused for FUD. It's not a new pandemic - period.

> And by New Zealand’s or Taiwan’s measure, we look very bad.

Did it even occur to this guy that his favorite reference countries are small islands with basically just one major ship and airport?

> Be like a zero hero, like New Zealand’s Jacinda Ardern.

This whole text is just a cheesy opinion piece - not a scientific view.

> No politician wanted to hear that evidence [by Drosten], and many continue to ignore it.

Not true - he's been the court scientist of German government since early 2020.

Re: The Virus Changed. Now We Must ‘Get to Zero’ or Face Catastrophe

#186

Post by jeofken »

Shacklz wrote: post #53
__blockcipher__ wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I think the mink culling was an absurd over-reaction and highly unethical. Those poor minks. (Disclosure: I also think the same for the human lockdowns too though)

That the mink industry still existed in this day and age in a country such as Denmark was in my opinion a complete travesty to begin with. Having all these animals in ridiculously small cages just for the sake of their fur - the cruelty is appalling. As cruel as Corona itself is - it did bring a few good things, killing the Mink industry was definitely one of them in my opinion.

It’s not different than consuming meat and dairy, which Danes love. Let’s put this moral inconsistency to the side

Re: The Virus Changed. Now We Must ‘Get to Zero’ or Face Catastrophe

#187

Post by wgjordan »

74d-fe6-2c6 wrote: post #185

> Moreover, our politicians have placed their bets on two high-tech, two-shot and costly vaccines, Pfizer and Moderna. They require refrigeration that half the world can’t afford. > American science has given us a Lamborghini when what the world needs is a Toyota There is no Pfizer vaccine ... it's German science from Biontech. The author doesn't even get this detail right. Why should I take his panicky opinion serio…

Not to mention that Moderna's vaccine doesn't require special refrigeration that 'half the world can't afford', just the pfizer/biontech vaccine. Moderna's vaccine can be stored in regular refrigeration for up to 30 days.

Re: The Virus Changed. Now We Must ‘Get to Zero’ or Face Catastrophe

#188

Post by jeofken »

jansan wrote: post #137
pbourke wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There would be nowhere enough troops to patrol the streets in Canada. They could supply extra reinforcement to ports/borders. A closure order + heavy fines/penalties + economic support would work, along with clear messaging around goals and exit criteria.

>along with clear messaging around goals and exit criteria. This! The lack of clear exit criteria and the continous moving of goalposts convinced me that the pandemic is used as a vehicle for a political agenda and even if it mutated into a mild cough politicians would still try to keep the hysteria alive, at least in the EU and Canada.

Of course. The board of directors in a company work to make their shareholders re-elect them. The leaders in democracies work to make the populace want them re-elected, or scared enough not to dare select an alternative

Re: The Virus Changed. Now We Must ‘Get to Zero’ or Face Catastrophe

#189

Post by cudgy »

“ New Zealand, Australia, Vietnam, Iceland and Taiwan got it right. They went to zero and eliminated the virus. Atlantic Canada and the North got it right, too.”

These countries are all islands. How is that representative of the rest of the world and how they can handle it?

Re: The Virus Changed. Now We Must ‘Get to Zero’ or Face Catastrophe

#190

Post by baxtr »

stonith wrote: post #180
baxtr wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have it backwards. I never said being an Island will save you, see the UK. Still the fact remains that there is no other Western country which is no Island that has zero Covid. If you accept this fact we can start discussing the underlying reasons. Maybe it’s because they’re islands, and maybe you’re right and it’s because of the policy in place. I believe it’s the former, because it’s way more difficult…

> It’s basically like saying the state of New York could have been able to drive COVID down to zero while other states had it exploding. This is exactly what Western Australia did. The Australian response was not nationally coordinated and each state has been doing their own thing. They have land borders between each other and yet the Victorian outbreak didn't spread to either NSW or SA because they implemented borde…

I wasn’t aware of that. I think it was the right call. Still, compare the population density of WA to Central Europe. It’s probably 2 orders higher.
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