Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet • Hacker News Board

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#181

Post by sebmellen » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 8:56 AM UTC

FooBarWidget wrote: post #179

sebmellen wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting insight — that the CCP is perhaps the best choice of many bad choices (the "lesser evil" as we say in the US). I do understand your perspective, but I respectfully disagree (though I do admit I don't know that much about how China really works). Of course, China is a developed economy, and there is a lot of really impressive and legitimate industry in China. The hardware markets of Shenzen, the…

Thanks for your perspective. I don't deny that China has many problems. But on the topic of truth , some accusations against China are false. Are you willing to discuss them?

Surely! I sent you a message on Keybase.

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#182

Post by FooBarWidget » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 8:57 AM UTC

jdc wrote: post #176

FooBarWidget wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, if you don't believe me, at least believe in Kishore Mahbubani, ex-Singapore diplomat and ex-UN Security Council head. He's spoken extensively about this in his book "Has China Won?" and can corroborate what I said. In the past 40 years, the freedoms of Chinese people have exploded. People could not choose what to wear, where to work, what to eat, where to live. Now they can. Millions travel world-wide every ye…

A bad party that is improving is still bad.

So what are the better choices? Do you think that if someone were to liquidate the CCP top members, plunging the country into chaos, that the Chinese would be better off?

It's easy to say "X is bad" when you don't have to care about practical consequences, like whether there are better alternatives, why we're in a suboptimal situation in the first place, and how to get to a better place.

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#183

Post by chrischen » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 9:00 AM UTC

raindropm wrote: post #170

chrischen wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point you're just applying your cultural bias.

It's about the status of people in the video and the general expectation of public of how they usually presented themselves. People of this caliber usually comes up with carefully craft image, along with good production. It's the same no matter where you live or born. The Bezos and Gates example is just that, and example of famous people that we familiar with and that's it. Chill man. Not everything is about race.

Your assertion doesn't even apply in Western culture, let alone generalization across cultures you probably know nothing about.

Most people would consider Elon to be eccentric, Paul Graham to not look like traditional VC, and these superficial aspects are frankly irrelevant. So why is it ok to use that to insinuate stereotypes and hand-wavy assertions of malfeasance.

Perhaps for you there is no consequence, but much like calling the coronavirus the "China virus", you're doing cultural damage by spreading negative stereotypes via fabricated or insinuated purely speculative assertions. The stereotype here is that China is associated with as some dystopian backwards society that has done no favors for its citizenry, which may or may not be true, but is definitely not defended by any objective evidence presented by the OP.

To flip the scenario, imagine if some random people from China commented about how the US elections seems like there was rampant fraud, without much supporting evidence. By lending credence to something without any concrete evidence you give it some air of legitimacy. When you do so by purely speculating on non-important things you've entered the realm of purely pushing an agenda with no substance.

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#184

Post by howlgarnish » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 9:04 AM UTC

chrischen wrote: post #117

howlgarnish wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The odd outbreak aside (and Shijiazhuang is nowhere near Hangzhou), lockdowns are long over in China, there's no need for Ma to cower in a basement. That said, I actually agree with you that the "hurr durr CCP torture cell" comments are overblown. It's entirely plausible that he's keeping a low profile for a while, if likely in response to some rather heavy-handed advice.

My problem is the OP is trying to insinuate things based off pure speculation, cultural bias, and irrelevant details. He may as well have said that there was an excess of red pixels in the video and that means it must be reflections off of communist symbolism in the room. So yes we are in agreement that the OP's comment is adds no substance to the conversation and is pure "hurr durr CCP torture cell" that just furthe…

No, we're not in agreement on that. It's clear that Ma's dress & appearance in the video was distinctly at odds with his own usual profile, no need for any stereotypes or comparisons to other people.

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#185

Post by chrischen » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 9:09 AM UTC

howlgarnish wrote: post #184

chrischen wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My problem is the OP is trying to insinuate things based off pure speculation, cultural bias, and irrelevant details. He may as well have said that there was an excess of red pixels in the video and that means it must be reflections off of communist symbolism in the room. So yes we are in agreement that the OP's comment is adds no substance to the conversation and is pure "hurr durr CCP torture cell" that just furthe…

No, we're not in agreement on that. It's clear that Ma's dress & appearance in the video was distinctly at odds with his own usual profile, no need for any stereotypes or comparisons to other people.

Yes but he (OP) was specifically comparing to how Bezos and Musk appear and insinuating that someone from the Chinese culture must present themselves in the same way or there must be foul play.

Just to clarify, I'm not really in a position to analyze the meaning behind his current attire and choice of background relative to his past, so I'll take your word on your analysis of that.

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#186

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 9:12 AM UTC

FooBarWidget wrote: post #28

sebmellen wrote: post #5

> In the 50-second video, Ma, dressed in a navy pullover, spoke directly to the camera from a room with grey marble walls and a striped carpet. It was not clear from the video or the Tianmu News article where he was speaking from. Uh, resurfacing from a fancy prison cell, perhaps? Can anyone find the video? EDIT: Here's the raw video: https://twitter.com/globaltimesnews/status/13517514568277196... . If you watch his…

How much more mental gymnastics do we need? I think it's time to accept that he WASN'T jailed rather than trying to forcefully shoehorn the facts into a 'but China still bad' narrative. The HN commentary went from 'Jack Ma is a national security threat' to 'Jack Ma is a poor victim of the CCP will will never be seen again' to 'this is fake, he is still jailed'. If he shows up someone else in person next time, will pe…

[deleted]

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#187

Post by 3327 » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 9:13 AM UTC

sebmellen wrote: post #26

nickysielicki wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it matters that he's reading off of a script. Imagine Bezos in the same situation, do you honestly think he wouldn't delegate the responsibility of speechwriting to his team of publicists?

Fair point, but his speech also seems forced, and the location is quite strange. If Bezos or Gates were to give an address like this, they'd have a great camera setup in their fancy home office with good lighting. For reference, take a look at Gates appearing on the Daily Show: https://youtube.com/watch?v=iyFT8qXcOrM . Ma looks the opposite here.

What is up with the pen in his hand and his thumb movement? Any ideas?

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#188

Post by dirtyid » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 9:21 AM UTC

howlgarnish wrote: post #184

chrischen wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My problem is the OP is trying to insinuate things based off pure speculation, cultural bias, and irrelevant details. He may as well have said that there was an excess of red pixels in the video and that means it must be reflections off of communist symbolism in the room. So yes we are in agreement that the OP's comment is adds no substance to the conversation and is pure "hurr durr CCP torture cell" that just furthe…

No, we're not in agreement on that. It's clear that Ma's dress & appearance in the video was distinctly at odds with his own usual profile, no need for any stereotypes or comparisons to other people.

> distinctly at odds with his own usual profile

This is a picture from today.

https://x0.ifengimg.com/ucms/2021_04/C5A7B512BF72106A6497177...

Same event from 2019.

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2019/09/10/world/10alibaba/m...

He upgraded from sweatpants to khakis. I think people are over reading the situation. All the usual factors that gets someone disappeared is not present with Ma's current faux pas.

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#189

Post by loceng » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 9:25 AM UTC

wllchng wrote: post #81

ConcreteGidget wrote: post #63

Does anyone have any book recommendations for non-chinese people to understand CCP power structures? I'm completely lost in all of this Jack Ma stuff.

The Party: The Secret World of China's Communist Rulers (2012)

I wonder if the 2021 version would have much different; were there known "re-education" camps then, etc?

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#190

Post by loceng » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 9:31 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #143

prox wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder why you’re being downvoted. Is it because it’s so accurate that it hurts or because it’s not?

Please don't break the site guidelines like this. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Honestly though, don't you think that's a valid question - asking for qualitative responses? Notice how the user responded to you, as an authority, I hope you're aware of that power dynamic as well.

I've also thought I'd love to see a Netflix style documentary of "a day in dang's life" to help us get to know you, to humanize you more + would be good marketing for HN and YCombinator. You're often very poetic in your responses, I think a documentary focused on you could be quite good.