Earlier quoted context omitted.
Buying back stock increases earnings per share, not the stock price.
Actually, when buying back stock you're essentially reducing the number of shares outstanding, which, all else equal, would translate into a higher stock price.
The Ballmer Days Are Over
181–190 of 218 posts
Re: The Ballmer Days Are Over
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
Skype on Xbox? 3D conferencing? Setting aside the horrendous culture on Xbox Live, does anybody want "3D conferencing"? Most people don't even use Skype for video conferencing today.
I could see how 3D avatar conferencing (like Xbox Live avatars) might actually be much more appealing than video conference.
Re: The Ballmer Days Are Over
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is a fantastically profitable company. A fantastically profitable company with the P/E ratio and historical growth rates of a public utility. Why invest in Microsoft when you could invest in Exxon Mobile, Johnson & Johnson, The Coca-Cola Company, Novartis - all companies with better long term growth rates and beefy dividends. Look, I am not trying to be discouraging, but I find it grating how little progress Micro…
Microsoft's had better earnings growth than any of the companies you listed. In the past 5 years Novartis grows its revenue from 30B to 45, MSFT does it from 51 to 62. Keep in mind that it gets harder the bigger you are - if you're already sucking 51B from your customers, how the hell do you find another 11? The flaw with speculating about the future is that anything that's certain will be priced into the stock immed…
Generally, this is true, but no one is doubting MSFT's profitability right now, the doubts are with regards to MSFT's future profitability.
"The flaw with speculating about the future is that anything that's certain will be priced into the stock immediately."
Only in the very short term and with short-term information that is both publicly available to all investors and verifiably true - most information does not meet these criteria. The longer you move out on your time horizon the more uncertainty will impact the market price.
There is an enormous amount of literature out there with relation to determining the future price movements of volatile assets in markets with asymmetrical information (not everyone gets all news at the same time). You should google the "efficient-market hypothesis" as well as recent efforts to test the assumptions that it relies on. (Thanks to the fall-out that occurred immediately after the 2008 market bust there has been a lot of soul-searching in the investment management industry.)
"A lot of people think they're being prudent just because they're investing with a \"long-term perspective\". That doesn't get you anything in and of itself - I can buy a car and hold onto it forever but it'll never appreciate (well, until it becomes an antique)."
They don't have to think that they are being prudent - there is evidence to demonstrate the prudence of this strategy. There is a large body of research out there that has demonstrated that long-term investment via index funds with low management fee overhead is a solid, profitable investment strategy.
"But that just makes it more important that you understand why you've chosen to hold onto this stock for so long. And I don't think speculation about the future is a good basis for that decision."
MSFT has underperformed over the past 5 and 10 year horizons. Past performance is not a guarantee of future results, but I have found it to be a worthwhile indicator to pay attention to.
I was a portfolio manager for about 3 years (before I decided to jump ship and try a startup). When building a portfolio for someone, one of the most important questions concerns the time horizon of the investment. A portfolio's risk profile should be appropriate for the investor. The only way to determine this is to look at the past performance, past volatility, and future prospects of any potential portfolio asset.
In the long-term everything is uncertain - I agree with you on this. However, where we disagree is that you seem to believe that all future events have an equivalent uncertainty, but this is demonstrably false.
There is a implicit probability associated with all future events, and these probabilities, in the aggregate, will impact today's share price. Some events are more probable than others. For a subtle demonstration of this, you could easily look at the performance of some of the larger pharmaceutical companies. As they get closer and closer to the expiration of some of their key money-making patents the volatility of the companies notably increases.
There is a considerable amount of truth to what you are saying, but I would, personally, hesitate to invest in an individual company without incorporating some type of business risk analysis into my decision.
Edit: Minor grammatical flaws. I apologize for any that remain, this was typed in a hurry.
Re: The Ballmer Days Are Over
#184Whereas I agree that Microsoft's performance and innovation over the past decade has been abysmal, I'm not sure it's just Ballmer to blame. It all started with the Google brain drain - and that happened while Bill Gates was very much involved at Microsoft. Once the brain drain begins, you lose talent at a rapid clip and no matter how great an idea you may have, it's very hard to execute. So then if you can't build it…
Buying Skype might have been the first smart thing Microsoft has done in a while. Skype is a relevant brand to consumers globally, Microsoft just is not anymore. The real question is will Microsoft destroy Skype. Bing search is another good move Microsoft has made. Adcenter, on the other hand is an embarrassing disaster on its own two feet and an ugly nightmare in comparison to Adwords. Adcenter is like a buggy crash…
MS has apparently realized that there's still a huge opportunity following the analog PBX shakeout of the last decade. They've been pushing Lync pretty heavily lately and I think the Skype purchase was made so they can directly address the things people ask for when they're evaluating Lync.
Re: The Ballmer Days Are Over
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Everyone heaps platitudes on Jobs but the reality is he has no understanding of or interest in business needs. On the other hand, you can make an argument that Ballmer has performed quite well on this front. Yeah Apple definitely doesn't need all that cash they're raking in. Move along please, point to something substantive and back it up with evidence before you arrogantly dismiss Steve Jobs. He has valid criticism…
I think he means _selling_ to businesses (i.e. B2B as opposed to B2C), not _running_ a business. Also, your nasty tone doesn't help.
Re: The Ballmer Days Are Over
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
Buying back stock increases earnings per share, not the stock price.
Yes, and increasing earnings per share generally increases stock price. In theory you only buy shares back when you believe that they are worth more than they are trading for. If this is true, it will increase the intrinsic value of the company and should increase its price per share. If it is not true, then management is incapable of evaluating their own business and shareholders should demand that all non-essential…
Re: The Ballmer Days Are Over
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Everyone heaps platitudes on Jobs but the reality is he has no understanding of or interest in business needs. On the other hand, you can make an argument that Ballmer has performed quite well on this front. Yeah Apple definitely doesn't need all that cash they're raking in. Move along please, point to something substantive and back it up with evidence before you arrogantly dismiss Steve Jobs. He has valid criticism…
I think the OP is right, but you are misunderstanding. Jobs understands his business, but what products does Apple put out there for businesses? Microsoft has Exchange, Active Directory, .NET/C#/MVC, MSSql, plus many more products aimed at the enterprise. Apple makes consumer products and does it will. The iPhone/pad/pod, AppleTV, laptops, and desktops. They tried the server market with XServer, but that was disconti…
Why does Apple need to worry about B2B? They sell consumer products--iPads, iPhones, iPods, Macbooks--that's where they make the bulk of their revenue/profits.
The idea that it's valid to criticize Apple for not having enough B2B is like complaining that Fender doesn't make flutes. It just isn't their business.
Re: The Ballmer Days Are Over
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
Actually, when buying back stock you're essentially reducing the number of shares outstanding, which, all else equal, would translate into a higher stock price.
That confuses me. When the company buys back shares they don't just disappear, do they? With 1 million outstanding shares owning 50% of a company and the company buys back 500k, then there are 500k shares owning 25%. Why would those shares' value increase?