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New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

cyclingtips.com

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Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#181

Post by lanius »

kenned3 wrote: post #153

Whenever i see things like this, i immediatly think "Audiophile". you know, the $238 "Directionally balanced" Ethernet cables, or the "low oxygen" copper. Once people take their hobby too far, you will end up with things like this. For $2K you can buy our (exotic and unnecessarily expensive metal) chain, which reduces friction to 0 and lasts forever. I ride a fair amount (150-200KM a week in the summers) and am alway…

>Sure i shaved 4g on my $400 waterbottle holder.... but when i weight 80KG.. and have another 2kg of water with me, does that 4g really matter?

Plus don't cycling competitions set a minimum bike weight anyways?

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#182

Post by loeg »

dharmab wrote: post #171
loeg wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do they make the cogs out of?

Motorcycle sprockets are usually made from steel (longer lasting) or aluminum (lighter). The sprockets need minimal cleaning and lubrication and usually wear out at the same time or after the chain, in my experience. The chain and sprockets are replaced as a set, as using a new chain on a worn sprocket can accelerate wear.

If the chains are coated in super hard diamond, won't the sprockets wear much faster?

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#183

Post by foobar1962 »

rconti wrote: post #123
rdiddly wrote: post #66

I'll tell ya what I see: no rollers. Pins rubbing (wearing) both sides of the tooth. Including the back side, which will never exert any forward longitudinal force on a chain unless it's made of magnets. I also see a highly suspect FEA diagram on the right, where teeth not even engaged still show non-zero stresses (lighter blue, not the darkest blue), indicating that the color/stress scale has been changed compared t…

I don't know anything about FEA, but in reading this article and thinking it through, was the first time it hit me how bad a conventional chain and sprocket is. On a brand-new set with perfect tolerances, you might be able to use many of the front side of many of the teeth, but as SOON as the chain begins to stretch (wear) even fractionally, most of the stress goes to the 'first' teeth in any given power stroke, and…

> ..it hit me how bad a conventional chain and sprocket is.

Not at all! The article claims 98% efficiency.

Roller chains are used to transfer torque in bicycles and motor cycles, inside internal combustion engines to drive cam shafts... and many more applications covering a huge range of power levels and environments.

Not only is it efficient, it's cheap.

If that last 2% of efficiency was important (or easy to obtain) it would have been on a GP motorcycle already.

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#184

Post by 8note »

rconti wrote: post #130
leoh wrote: post #9

Great chain, but the Gates Carbon Drive is likely a superior technology. Europe has largely adopted it, but it is rare in the states. I have a Riese & Müller bike with a Gates Carbon Drive and it is absolutely lovely. Silent, but best of all, no grease on my pants or hands, ever. They handle dirt and dust super well (just dry off and wipe down with a cloth/no gears get jammed with a sealed planetary gear system). It…

I've got a belt-drive "commuter bike" that doesn't get ridden much these days. It currently has a Gates Carbon Drive which I mostly like, and you're mostly correct. But it came with a Continental belt drive system that was awful. I snapped my first belt on it under load when it was about 6 months old. The damn thing always squeaked no matter how clean i tried to keep it. The rear wheel had to be on perfectly straight…

Sounds like your next thing is to switch to tubeless tires so you don't have to do that so often

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#185

Post by bch »

dharmab wrote: post #170
calvinmorrison wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another point: BMW Motorrad has used driveshafts on their bikes since the 80s. In a conventional setup much like a automobile. The only real majntaining is to lube the end gear which sits in a kind of differential housing (there's no diff, but imagine how a car's driveshaft connects to the rear axle). My bike (a k75) has it and well it's pretty cool!

That's only on the touring models, where the lower maintenance intervals justify the weight and inefficiency. The smaller off-road models like my F750GS and the performance-oriented models like the S1000R use chains for durability/repairability and efficiency.

It’s every K and R bike they’ve make since the 1930s (for the R models), including touring bikes but also the GS (which perhaps is a tourer these days, granted), R Nine T (street/sport), R18 (bobber/cruiser), and R1250R roadster.

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#186

Post by KSteffensen »

kenned3 wrote: post #153

Whenever i see things like this, i immediatly think "Audiophile". you know, the $238 "Directionally balanced" Ethernet cables, or the "low oxygen" copper. Once people take their hobby too far, you will end up with things like this. For $2K you can buy our (exotic and unnecessarily expensive metal) chain, which reduces friction to 0 and lasts forever. I ride a fair amount (150-200KM a week in the summers) and am alway…

It requires less effort to buy a $400 waterbottle holder than to change your diet to loose a couple of kilos.

And you can show off gear, you can't show off weight loss.

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#187

Post by gerbler »

leoh wrote: post #9

Great chain, but the Gates Carbon Drive is likely a superior technology. Europe has largely adopted it, but it is rare in the states. I have a Riese & Müller bike with a Gates Carbon Drive and it is absolutely lovely. Silent, but best of all, no grease on my pants or hands, ever. They handle dirt and dust super well (just dry off and wipe down with a cloth/no gears get jammed with a sealed planetary gear system). It…

I have a Gates Carbon drive too. It's extremely convenient, but my understanding is that it's lower efficiency compared to a well-mantained chain. Due to the practical challenges of maintaining a steel chain, I think Gates does well and it's a great commuter option.

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#188

Post by pcl »

aardvarkr wrote: post #162
pcl wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the pro level, bicycles are regularly below regulation weight, and then dead weight is added to get back to spec. So, there is budget for extra weight for higher performance parts. However, the rule of thumb is to minimize rotational weight (e.g., wheels) due to the increase in rotational inertia. I wonder whether chain weight is similarly problematic.

Just for argument’s sake, does rotational weight really give a performance impact? I expect it marginally improves initial acceleration but I also expect top speed is unchanged. Heavier wheels would allow you to coast for longer without needing to pedal (conservation of momentum) but besides the initial acceleration performance is mostly unchanged. Unless you’re constantly stopping and starting idk if it makes much d…

In many types of races, cyclists are pretty much constantly changing speed, so the extra inertia matters a fair bit.

Often, races are won and lost in the final dash to the finish line, which is pretty much all about acceleration.

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#189

Post by enriquto »

leoh wrote: post #9

Great chain, but the Gates Carbon Drive is likely a superior technology. Europe has largely adopted it, but it is rare in the states. I have a Riese & Müller bike with a Gates Carbon Drive and it is absolutely lovely. Silent, but best of all, no grease on my pants or hands, ever. They handle dirt and dust super well (just dry off and wipe down with a cloth/no gears get jammed with a sealed planetary gear system). It…

> Europe has largely adopted it,

I'm an avid leerer of other's bikes, and in my long and fruitful bike leering career in Europe, I have seen just one (1) gates drive.

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#190

Post by patrec »

KSteffensen wrote: post #186
kenned3 wrote: post #153

Whenever i see things like this, i immediatly think "Audiophile". you know, the $238 "Directionally balanced" Ethernet cables, or the "low oxygen" copper. Once people take their hobby too far, you will end up with things like this. For $2K you can buy our (exotic and unnecessarily expensive metal) chain, which reduces friction to 0 and lasts forever. I ride a fair amount (150-200KM a week in the summers) and am alway…

It requires less effort to buy a $400 waterbottle holder than to change your diet to loose a couple of kilos. And you can show off gear, you can't show off weight loss.

Not being overweight is nowadays a prime status marker, so you can absolutely show it off! Once you start shaving off 4g at a time, it's probably time to switch to gear though.
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