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Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

launchpad.ethereum.org

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Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#181

Post by randtrain34 »

blurbleblurble wrote: post #180
newyankee wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this mean no more mining and waste of electricity ?

Not to mention GPUs! Can you believe how many GPUs have been cooked by this scheme? I got a water-cooled GTX 1080 almost 5 years ago on Craigslist for $500. Usually old things like that get cheaper as time goes by, but not GPUs. Nowadays those things are going for like $800. I was hoping to upgrade to an RTX2080 or something (also a few years old now) but they're like $1000! I can't help but think that cryptocurrency…

the 3070 is $499, roughly equivalent to the 2080 TI

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#182

Post by rglullis »

diang wrote: post #164
rglullis wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of L2 solutions already exist and can be used with Ethereum already. If your single comparison point is the existing banking and credit card payment networks, you can take a look at e.g, Raiden which is already deployed on mainnet and can scale with the number of the nodes participating in the network. Hundreds of thousands of payment transactions per second are already possible. The main issue is that most of…

I could take a look at e.g, anything ... but when you add a caveat of participation, scaling to infinity is inherently possible. If we all chose to do something, we could all do it. The problem comes with attracting such participation, which isn't warranted without that very participation having already been established. Carts and horses and such.

First you said it was a "if they come we will build it" problem, I just showed you one example that demonstrates that your claim is false.

Also, I said that there are many things yet in the way to facilitate adoption, no need to move the goal-posts.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#183

Post by pteraspidomorph »

randtrain34 wrote: post #181
blurbleblurble wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention GPUs! Can you believe how many GPUs have been cooked by this scheme? I got a water-cooled GTX 1080 almost 5 years ago on Craigslist for $500. Usually old things like that get cheaper as time goes by, but not GPUs. Nowadays those things are going for like $800. I was hoping to upgrade to an RTX2080 or something (also a few years old now) but they're like $1000! I can't help but think that cryptocurrency…

the 3070 is $499, roughly equivalent to the 2080 TI

Out of stock around these parts. It has been for weeks. All stores, all brands. There are a few units left from dubious brands if I order them all the way from Amazon Germany.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#184

Post by hated »

beaner wrote: post #7
newyankee wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this mean no more mining and waste of electricity ?

Just to riff on this idea, despite inevitable pushback: Bitcoin's proof-of-work is basically a conversion of energy directly into money. This pushes competition towards cheaper and cheaper sources of energy. First it's finding jurisdictions that subsidize it, then it's creating your own cheaper energy sources. Proof-of-work incentivizes cheap & renewable energy investment. The penultimate phase is custom off-grid min…

> Bitcoin's proof-of-work is basically a conversion of energy directly into money

It's a conversion of energy into coinage which can be used by people to repay their debts to others.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#185

Post by brazzy »

keymone wrote: post #137
brazzy wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what if i told you that the constant level of energy spent is the level of security bitcoin users demand by virtue of buying it at current price level? I'd say that you're wrong because security is not the primary thing they're buying. > would you say constant provision of certain level of security is waste? I would say that doing so through a constantly increasing level of energy use is indeed a waste.

> security is not the primary thing they're buying sounds like speculation. it's a major desirability factor in bitcoin. > constantly increasing level of energy use is indeed a waste the more money you store in a vault - the more security it needs for you to sleep well. you wouldn't lock a $5000 bike with $5 lock. so difficulty increase correlates very much with amount of wealth poured into bitcoin. edit: typo

> sounds like speculation. it's a major desirability factor in bitcoin.

No, that's a plain fact. Nobody ever buys security as an end unto itself. You buy security to protect the thing you really want. Which in the case of Bitcoin is by a vast majority "getting rich".

> you wouldn't lock a $5000 bike with $5 lock. so difficulty increase correlates very much with amount of wealth poured into bitcoin.

It correlates, but not in direct proportion. With any other kind of security, you don't need to spend 10 times as much to protect a 10 times higher value, and there is a possibility of security getting cheaper due to advances in technology.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#186

Post by dmos62 »

no_wizard wrote: post #167
dmos62 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Proof-of-work incentivizes cheap & renewable energy investment. > Cheap yes, renewable no. Complete non sequitur there. That's the main point. There's no inherent incentive to use clean energy for mining. There's opposite stories about obsolete aluminum plants staying alive in China by just using their energy allocations to mine Bitcoin.

I have to call this out as google didn’t back this claim up readily. Do you have a source? I Cabot believe an aluminum plant could make Enough money off of Bitcoin mining to subsidize its operations like that at first blush. I’m very interested in reading about it though

This is what I've been referencing: https://blog.bitmex.com/mining-incentives-part-2-why-is-chin...

I've read it some time ago. I recalled it as less speculative than it seems now.

The premise is that energy is a large part of aluminium production cost and the plants work on small margins. An over-investment into energy production provides cheap energy and allows the aluminium plants to improve their margins via crypto mining.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#187

Post by smoyer »

brazzy wrote: post #22
beaner wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to riff on this idea, despite inevitable pushback: Bitcoin's proof-of-work is basically a conversion of energy directly into money. This pushes competition towards cheaper and cheaper sources of energy. First it's finding jurisdictions that subsidize it, then it's creating your own cheaper energy sources. Proof-of-work incentivizes cheap & renewable energy investment. The penultimate phase is custom off-grid min…

> Proof-of-work incentivizes cheap & renewable energy investment. Cheap yes, renewable no. Complete non sequitur there. > The endgame is that all energy companies will primarily be Bitcoin mining companies, feeding their excess renewable energy into the grid to power homes, etc. Absolute insanity straight out of postapocalyptic SF. "The ancients destroyed their civilization by funelling an ever increasing share of re…

Please link the reference here ... this sounds like a book I'd definitely want to read (though if sounds somehow familiar).

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#188

Post by msie »

ajkdhcb2 wrote: post #57
mikkelam wrote: post #39

I honestly think eth2 will have an incredible effect. Think of all the developing countries or countries without proper financial infrastructure, even places where you do not trust your local currency. All these places will benefit hugely from a bootstrapped currency ready to be deployed for very little effort. Launching an ecommerce will suddenly be much easier for a many more people. I'm also very interested in see…

If you don't trust your government or your personal safety, I can't imagine that it will be smart to use currencies like this that have ZERO privacy. I will stick with Monero. They have gone through all this complex redesign apparently without a single thought given to privacy; looks like a disaster.

When you say “They” you must mean Ethereum.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#189

Post by Forbo »

blurbleblurble wrote: post #180
newyankee wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this mean no more mining and waste of electricity ?

Not to mention GPUs! Can you believe how many GPUs have been cooked by this scheme? I got a water-cooled GTX 1080 almost 5 years ago on Craigslist for $500. Usually old things like that get cheaper as time goes by, but not GPUs. Nowadays those things are going for like $800. I was hoping to upgrade to an RTX2080 or something (also a few years old now) but they're like $1000! I can't help but think that cryptocurrency…

Most serious mining operations will typically undervolt their GPUs for increased efficiency and don't experience nearly as much temperature fluctuation. Buying a used mining GPU isn't nearly as bad of an idea as it sounds on the surface.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#190

Post by nwah1 »

dgrin91 wrote: post #166
newyankee wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this mean no more mining and waste of electricity ?

It means orders of magnitude less. The part of the blockchain that proves your transaction was valid is now (oversimplifying here) just a boolean check instead of running a hash algo over and over

I think a better way to say it is that it moves from a trustless system to a system that trusts based on some criteria. That criteria is usually how many coins one has.

Since the original bitcoin concept was solving the byzantine generals problem, the entire point of all the cryptographic work was to be trustless.

If you are cool with trust, you can have reversibility, lost password retrieval, anti-money laundering checks, and all the other features of the existing financial system.

It would be a carbon copy of that, of course, which would raise the question of what problem this system is solving for people.

But I understand that Ethereum is about distributed computing, not transactions, so the calculus may be different. The point being to replace AWS, not Western Union.

I'm personally not sold on why a distributed trust algorithm would be superior to trusting AWS or Azure, given that those services can give you a refund for errors, are subject to the legal system, have a brand reputation to maintain, and so on.

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