Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

launchpad.ethereum.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 266 posts

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#51

Post by alexmingoia »

mikkelam wrote: post #39

I honestly think eth2 will have an incredible effect. Think of all the developing countries or countries without proper financial infrastructure, even places where you do not trust your local currency. All these places will benefit hugely from a bootstrapped currency ready to be deployed for very little effort. Launching an ecommerce will suddenly be much easier for a many more people. I'm also very interested in see…

E-commerce doesn't require digital currency. I live in a country without digital payments infrastructure, and there's lots of e-commerce (primarily via Facebook). It's all cash-on-delivery. I've ordered food, furniture, baby supplies, medicine, etc. from businesses on Facebook and pay on delivery.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#52

Post by rglullis »

beaner wrote: post #7
newyankee wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this mean no more mining and waste of electricity ?

Just to riff on this idea, despite inevitable pushback: Bitcoin's proof-of-work is basically a conversion of energy directly into money. This pushes competition towards cheaper and cheaper sources of energy. First it's finding jurisdictions that subsidize it, then it's creating your own cheaper energy sources. Proof-of-work incentivizes cheap & renewable energy investment. The penultimate phase is custom off-grid min…

> Bitcoin's proof-of-work is basically a conversion of energy directly into money.

Nope! Putting more energy is not going to make more money into the system, is just makes it more likely that you get to be in the front of a firehose that drips money into the system in a constant rate.

Putting more energy into the system just increases the cost of money itself. But no one wants money, what people want is the what money can buy. Instead of spending ever more energy to get into the front of the line, one could just use the energy for something productive and then sell it.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#53

Post by lawn »

mikkelam wrote: post #39

I honestly think eth2 will have an incredible effect. Think of all the developing countries or countries without proper financial infrastructure, even places where you do not trust your local currency. All these places will benefit hugely from a bootstrapped currency ready to be deployed for very little effort. Launching an ecommerce will suddenly be much easier for a many more people. I'm also very interested in see…

I fail to see what eth2 would provide that other solutions and other cryptocurrencies don't already provide.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#55

Post by beaner »

viraptor wrote: post #45
beaner wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then we shouldn't have an issue, since I explained how such a system would continue to provide in that case.

Why would anyone run an energy storage system for general population in that system? If they can undercut the energy companies at some times and sell to the Bitcoin miners, why would they even bother with residential customers? Sure, people who can afford energy storage themselves would be sorted. (Most of the time) Anyone below that wealth threshold would be at the mercy of "am I more important than the monetary gai…

Because it would be profitable, that's how markets work.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#56

Post by beaner »

adrianN wrote: post #48
beaner wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, trying in good faith to understand, isn't the problem that the output in this case is physical, while Bitcoin's energy-to-money output is digital?

Why is that a problem? The price for Aluminium is more stable than the price of bitcoin.

I mean, you tell me. I don't mean to sound snarky. But it seemed to be your point that existing processes which turn energy into money are a hindrance to clean energy investments. The previous commenter offered an example of aluminum smelting. Which is not exactly what I meant, because I was being more literal when I was talking about an energy-into-money process, and that example appears to really mean energy-to-aluminum-to-money. I understood this example to mean that the reason other existing "energy-to-money" processes have been a hindrance to clean energy investments is that they have byproducts which negate clean efforts. In contrast to this, renewable crypto mining has no physical byproducts. Dunno if I misunderstood something.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#57

Post by ajkdhcb2 »

mikkelam wrote: post #39

I honestly think eth2 will have an incredible effect. Think of all the developing countries or countries without proper financial infrastructure, even places where you do not trust your local currency. All these places will benefit hugely from a bootstrapped currency ready to be deployed for very little effort. Launching an ecommerce will suddenly be much easier for a many more people. I'm also very interested in see…

If you don't trust your government or your personal safety, I can't imagine that it will be smart to use currencies like this that have ZERO privacy. I will stick with Monero. They have gone through all this complex redesign apparently without a single thought given to privacy; looks like a disaster.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#58

Post by beaner »

rglullis wrote: post #52
beaner wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to riff on this idea, despite inevitable pushback: Bitcoin's proof-of-work is basically a conversion of energy directly into money. This pushes competition towards cheaper and cheaper sources of energy. First it's finding jurisdictions that subsidize it, then it's creating your own cheaper energy sources. Proof-of-work incentivizes cheap & renewable energy investment. The penultimate phase is custom off-grid min…

> Bitcoin's proof-of-work is basically a conversion of energy directly into money. Nope! Putting more energy is not going to make more money into the system, is just makes it more likely that you get to be in the front of a firehose that drips money into the system in a constant rate. Putting more energy into the system just increases the cost of money itself. But no one wants money, what people want is the what mone…

> Putting more energy is not going to make more money into the system, is just makes it more likely that you get to be in the front of a firehose that drips money into the system in a constant rate.

This doesn't negate what I'm trying to say. That the energy amount is variable but the currency units output on the other side are static doesn't change the fact that energy is being turned into money. By contributing a higher fraction of the input, you get a higher fraction of the output.

If anything, higher energy input can only be justified when the money being made as a result has an equivalent value or purchasing power. You're confusing units of currency for the actual purchasing power they represent, which actually is variable.

> no one wants money, what people want is the what money can buy

This is wrong. People want the option to have things in the future, which is exactly what money is.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#59

Post by rglullis »

beaner wrote: post #8
emilsedgh wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there were refrigerators that could work without electricity with no the same set of capabilities, then any refrigerator still using electricity would be considered wasteful.

I'm not saying that proof-of-stake is bad, but it does change the way the network functions, because it locks capital and therefore affects the velocity of money in the network. It also changes the distribution of mined coin. Whereas currently it takes an equal mining cost to reap an equal reward, proof-of-stake rewards those who already have enough to stake. This is essentially a recreation of the inflation system w…

> proof-of-stake rewards those who already have enough to stake.

Don't forget, those that do not have enough to stake can pool their resources together.

P.s: tell me where in the world you can open a bank (not a bank account, but an actual bank which can receive deposits from Central Banks) with only 10-20k USD.

P.P.s: There is growing talk about existing central banks that are considering issuing their own blockchain version of their currencies, bypass large banks and have money go directly to people through controlled accounts. It would be basically be a Government-sanctioned version of Tether/USDC/EURS.

Re: Ethereum 2.0 – Minimum deposit reached

#60

Post by totony »

ajkdhcb2 wrote: post #57
mikkelam wrote: post #39

I honestly think eth2 will have an incredible effect. Think of all the developing countries or countries without proper financial infrastructure, even places where you do not trust your local currency. All these places will benefit hugely from a bootstrapped currency ready to be deployed for very little effort. Launching an ecommerce will suddenly be much easier for a many more people. I'm also very interested in see…

If you don't trust your government or your personal safety, I can't imagine that it will be smart to use currencies like this that have ZERO privacy. I will stick with Monero. They have gone through all this complex redesign apparently without a single thought given to privacy; looks like a disaster.

This is still a good milestone, because you can implement privacy concious tokens on top of eth and PoS will apply to them.
Post reply on HN