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Birds 'falling out of the sky' in mass die-off in south-western US

theguardian.com

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Re: Birds 'falling out of the sky' in mass die-off in south-western US

#181

Post by klyrs »

HenryBemis wrote: post #169
DeonPenny wrote: post #132

The sky was red a few days ago. I'm guessing its that. I don't know. I'm not 100% sure, but that was the one thing out of the normal

Is the smoke 'clean', meaning is it just plantation that is being consumed by fire or there is also a large percentage of toxic smoke into the air? Has there been significant number of homes/cars/factories (I am thinking things that upon being burnt would release a chemical/toxic cloud)(thinking the difference of burning 100kg of wood Vs burning 100kg of laptops and how different the smoke would be in damaging health…

The carbon monoxide levels in Portland have been ridiculously high. "Clean" isn't the issue here; it's quite likely a matter of suffocation.

Re: Birds 'falling out of the sky' in mass die-off in south-western US

#182

Post by scsilver »

bryan0 wrote: post #34

The first sentence of this article describes the die-off as "inexplicable", but the sub-title gives a couple explanations including the massive fires and resulting smoke which is covering the western US. Watching the animals outside my house, I wonder how this smoke must be effecting them, but evolution must have led them out of wildfire conditions in the past.

Evolution can handle some of the species dying, just not all. I was in flaming Gorge Utah this week, found 3 dead birds on the trail of a short hike. I've read enough of the old testament to know a bad omen when I see one though. Very concerning.

Re: Birds 'falling out of the sky' in mass die-off in south-western US

#183

Post by anonAndOn »

bdamm wrote: post #180
pjc50 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wood smoke itself is surprisingly toxic; all sorts of nasty combustion products.

True, but our definition of toxic has changed. Humans have been living with wood smoke for millennia, it may not be great for you but it isn't very new in terms of evolutionary presence. Smoke from burning industrial chemicals is a newer thing, and certainly some of these industrial toxins can kill or injure you far more quickly than wood smoke. So a warehouse full of laptops burning (and probably painted with lead)…

Wood smoke is something to be avoided if at all possible. It's actually a leading cause of death in developing countries.[0]

[0]https://www.globalgiving.org/projects/safe-efficient-cooksto...

Re: Birds 'falling out of the sky' in mass die-off in south-western US

#185

Post by HenryBemis »

bdamm wrote: post #180
pjc50 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wood smoke itself is surprisingly toxic; all sorts of nasty combustion products.

True, but our definition of toxic has changed. Humans have been living with wood smoke for millennia, it may not be great for you but it isn't very new in terms of evolutionary presence. Smoke from burning industrial chemicals is a newer thing, and certainly some of these industrial toxins can kill or injure you far more quickly than wood smoke. So a warehouse full of laptops burning (and probably painted with lead)…

Thank you for that comment.

My post above got downvoted (and I don't care) but it's all about the point I was trying to make and it was clearly misunderstood.

Btw my father is a retired fireman and the nomenclature ("chemical", "toxic") is his. Every time there is a fire in the news we talk about it and he gives me his input on the impact. And he has dealt with many types of fires (forests, offices, chemical factories, living blocks, etc.)

The destruction in nature is unfortunate and nobody wants it. But the impact from the smoke (and wait until all that crap in the air goes over you city, and then wait for it to rain all that toxic crap will end up on your parks and streets and schools).. and then you will start driving your car and part of the "dust" that will get back into your breathable air will be.. you guessed it.. what has been burning for so many days.

Thus the difference between burnt trees Vs burnt homes/factories/chemicals (100kg wood vs 100kg laptops as an extreme example). Wood - you cough, laptops you get lung cancer.

The crap that is in the smoke, sooner or later, here or there, will make come back down, and THAT matters.

Re: Birds 'falling out of the sky' in mass die-off in south-western US

#186

Post by charwalker »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #120
charwalker wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a large chunk of the US voter population that thinks that even if climate change is real it isn't human driven and therefor totally natural or by God's design. So of course nothing should be done about it because either it isn't real or it isn't human caused. This is also the group that often votes single issue or directly against their best interest much like What's the matter with Kansas. Surprisingly, Kan…

>This is also the group that often votes single issue or directly against their best interest much like What's the matter with Kansas. Surprisingly, Kansas itself hasn't read that book and seems to repeat history every time the GOP wants less taxes. Oh please. Inner city minorities have been voting for gun control (good luck getting the cops to show up let alone promptly in some places) since long before climate chan…

Inner cities often see escalated violent crime compared to rural and suburban areas. However I can't find a source suggesting inner city minorities are single issue voter for gun control.

I did find several where minorities refused to vote GOP due to racism and related issues but I'd consider that decency not single issue.

Meanwhile I can list my Grandma's entire church as mostly single issue related to abortion rights, or at least that's what the current leadership preaches.

By voting against their interest, I'm considering that the GOP has had platform planks, policy options, or new laws/rules related to reducing farm subsides, setting up tariffs that bring counter actions that destroy entire US farming groups, refuse to acknowledge climate change is real let alone human driven, curtailing regulations around safe pesticides or environmental efforts in general, and reducing rural outreach like cuts to USPS, voting access, and more.

It seems odd that a group of often rural and farm related folks would vote for a party that has succeeded in reducing their subsidies, axing their crop values internationally via revenge tariffs, refusing to acknowledge why droughts are sweeping the nation and doing nothing to counter them, and reducing their access to mail and levers of democracy would be against their core interests.

But hey, the rich have lower taxes and the poor can't get healthcare, jobs, retirement, home ownership, and the chances of preventing massive droughts and climate change related issues are nil so all is right for the GOP.

What's the Matter with Kansas is a deeper look into the Kansas aspects of this. It's an interesting read and very relevant as just back in 2016 they tried to ax taxes across the state and schools closed, hospitals started to shut down, roads fell apart, and more until the state supreme court ordered the legislature to fund basic services and the GOP dominated state legislature had to override the governors veto to pass higher taxes. At this point, cutting taxes seems to be the biggest right wing driver apart from protecting Trump.

Of course, if the GOP gets into office then floods you with more subsidies because their actions would otherwise destroy your entire national industry, perhaps its more about selfish people being selfish than voting against their interests. If US farmers didn't have tariffs shredding their markets and driving demand to Brazil and other nations, maybe they wouldn't need more bailout money than the US auto sector in 2009. So far I think they are up to about 2x the auto bailout but that was a year ago.

So much for person responsibility and fiscally conscious conservatives. The deficit hasn't mattered since Obama left office apparently.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/21/trump-teases-more-t...

https://www.freep.com/story/money/business/john-gallagher/20...

Re: Birds 'falling out of the sky' in mass die-off in south-western US

#187

Post by pjkundert »

hinkley wrote: post #148
paulmd wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the internal instability within western nations has reached the point that our national psyche has regressed to the lower levels of maslow's hierarchy we've regressed from self-actualization and are now focused on issues of survival

The anti-mask folks have chosen self-actualization over survival. Like the stages of grief, the hierarchy is not necessarily chronological.

I'm really not sure if this is meant as an insult or not, but I'll take it as respectful.

Wearing my high-bypass N95 mask, or a sloppy ill-fitting "surgical" mask or an un-rated cloth mask around a vulnerable person with multiple comorbidities is a dangerous show of virtue-signalling: it does essentially nothing to protect that individual.

Encouraging vulnerable people to wear a powered HEPA ventilator on their hip, connected to a full face mask would be useful. Not perfect, but statistically 100x-1000x better outcome, should they be unfortunately exposed to a cloud of SARS-CoV-2 bearing particulates. Isn't a hundred bucks a worthwhile investment to actually protect a vulnerable person?

Forcing people to do worthless things (wear masks, when they have no comorbidities, which do nothing to protect the vulnerable) is ridiculous, and is rightly held in contempt by many caring people.

Its very strange, to me, that even on a platform like HN, we get many (most?) accounts involved in denigrating entire groups by name-calling them "deniers" -- without actually materially addressing any of the concerns of the individuals within the "group"...

Re: Birds 'falling out of the sky' in mass die-off in south-western US

#188

Post by jlengrand »

redisman wrote: post #145
jlengrand wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So much this. The events from the past years have already been difficult to digest. But every time I come and read comments, I'm even more depressed, anxious. "no matter if you don't drive, or stop meat; it won't be enough". "nice that you're stopping commuting, but that won't suffice". "offsetting by planting trees is not good enough compared to net zero". Or worse, dismissive like "it only helps with your own self-…

It's funny that this is also coming from the community that runs on building good-enough-for-now solutions rather than trying to raise $1B and build the perfect service from the ground up.

Which community are you talking about? HN?

Re: Birds 'falling out of the sky' in mass die-off in south-western US

#189

Post by cryptica »

>> ... climate crisis cited as possible causes for the deaths of thousands of migrating species heading south for the winter

Yes it was because of global cooling... The insufficient amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is causing the well documented 'icebox effect' to occur.

We need to get our coal power plants running at full steam in order to counteract the cooling.

Re: Birds 'falling out of the sky' in mass die-off in south-western US

#190

Post by aaron695 »

I feel like this story gets repeated every few years on HN.

Checking one was 10 year ago.

I think it's funny people think you can have a collective oral history that's factual.

Yet even with computers and internet we get the apocalyptical death cult going on and on about the end of the world and the mysticism.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2079371

"Dead Bird Panic", I like that comment.

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