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Birds 'falling out of the sky' in mass die-off in south-western US

theguardian.com

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Re: Birds 'falling out of the sky' in mass die-off in south-western US

#131

Post by notabee »

Retric wrote: post #64
mhb wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we’re still having arguments about whether people are the cause. Of. Course. We. Are. You seem to discount the anthropocentric argument (as it should be) and then promptly jump right in to it. Why does it matter what the cause is?

It’s generally more difficult to actually fix something without knowing the cause.

It's even more difficult when the cause has been known for decades but doesn't jive with people's means of income or religious views and is thus roundly ignored or debated in bad faith.

Re: Birds 'falling out of the sky' in mass die-off in south-western US

#133

Post by heurist »

havelhovel wrote: post #20

I have been told on this forum that the men and women working in wildlife conservation are in it for vanity or for self gratification. Relatedly, I have been told on this forum that there is nothing that regular folks can do about climate change. But then events like this happen, and no one reflects on how fatally pessimistic this community can be. Are we ourselves not capable of forecasting the effect of a burning s…

There's always something you can do. There are market opportunities in addressing climate change. Find them, implement them, continually push for more economically and ecologically sustainable results. The more money there is in finding solutions, the more likely we are to fix the underlying problems.

Re: Birds 'falling out of the sky' in mass die-off in south-western US

#134

Post by seba_dos1 »

LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #125
falcolas wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The smoke is really bad in the west. https://fire.airnow.gov/

Looking at it, and the extent I begin to wonder about the global implications of that. Probably doesn't rise as high as a volcanic eruption or nuclear mushroom, but this is massive .

Combine that with similar massive fires in Australia happening on the opposite season and the fact that this is only going to get worse with time.

Re: Birds 'falling out of the sky' in mass die-off in south-western US

#135

Post by bonestamp2 »

MiroF wrote: post #103
bonestamp2 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On that note, I always knew we were the problem, but this reminds me of something I heard that changed the way I thought about it... If aliens were flying past our planet and saw all of our concrete and deforestation from space, they'd assume we're an unstoppable virus that will destroy the ecosystem if a cure is not found. That perspective hit me in a way, at a scale, that I have never thought about before. We see m…

> A little further out there, but if other intelligent life exists and they saw us as a virus, they might try to cure the planet by eradicating us. Which would be awful, as we can all agree.

Yes, sorry. It would be awful. The implication was that we should turn things around before that could ever be the conclusion another lifeform might come to.

Re: Birds 'falling out of the sky' in mass die-off in south-western US

#136

Post by steffan »

MiroF wrote: post #25
steffan wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Habitability for humans . It's more or less a self-correcting problem

Our society is so odd. I find it astonishing that so many people can be cavalier about the deaths of millions of people when it comes to environmental destruction in a way that would be totally socially unacceptable if you were talking about targeted killings or genocide.

It's not cavalier as much as it is factual. Of course I would lament the loss of our entire species, but the _planet_ will go on just fine without us. We (humans) are hardly the worst thing to happen to life on the planet. If we're incapable of being good stewards of it, really we're only hastening our own demise.

Re: Birds 'falling out of the sky' in mass die-off in south-western US

#137

Post by chrisco255 »

bonestamp2 wrote: post #66
MiroF wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people do not care remotely about the lives of others that they can't conceptualize. I'm increasingly worried that large segments of the population will not be reached by that message or any message that isn't about direct harm to themselves or their loved ones.

On that note, I always knew we were the problem, but this reminds me of something I heard that changed the way I thought about it... If aliens were flying past our planet and saw all of our concrete and deforestation from space, they'd assume we're an unstoppable virus that will destroy the ecosystem if a cure is not found. That perspective hit me in a way, at a scale, that I have never thought about before. We see m…

If aliens flew by on a space ship then how the hell do you think they manufactured the materials for the space ship? Maybe they've got entire planets devoted to manufacturing. It's rather absurd to think about. This is an incredibly toxic point of view.

Re: Birds 'falling out of the sky' in mass die-off in south-western US

#138

Post by chrisco255 »

MiroF wrote: post #25
steffan wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Habitability for humans . It's more or less a self-correcting problem

Our society is so odd. I find it astonishing that so many people can be cavalier about the deaths of millions of people when it comes to environmental destruction in a way that would be totally socially unacceptable if you were talking about targeted killings or genocide.

Except human population levels are at all time highs. There is no evidence of human population suffering on account of technology. The exact opposite is true: people are living longer, have access to more food and more material goods than any time in history. Stop reading fear porn, it's bad for your mental health.

Re: Birds 'falling out of the sky' in mass die-off in south-western US

#139

Post by redisman »

LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #125
falcolas wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The smoke is really bad in the west. https://fire.airnow.gov/

Looking at it, and the extent I begin to wonder about the global implications of that. Probably doesn't rise as high as a volcanic eruption or nuclear mushroom, but this is massive .

It is basically nuclear "winter" in the PNW. Temperatures dropped by about 20F when the big CA/OR smoke arrived. https://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2020/09/smoke-has-caused-temp...

Re: Birds 'falling out of the sky' in mass die-off in south-western US

#140

Post by Udik »

jibcage wrote: post #5

It feels like the earth is dying. I wonder if the human population has longer than 20 years of tolerable existence left on this planet.

A thousand years ago California had droughts lasting centuries.

This article puts things in perspective re. wildfires:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03781...

Before the 1800s, 1.8 million hectares of Californian forest burned each year.

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