Activists find camera inside box on power pole near union organizer’s home • Hacker News Board

Re: Activists find camera inside box on power pole near union organizer’s home

#181

Post by burfog » Sat, Aug 22, 2020, 8:48 PM UTC

lioeters wrote: post #157

barry-cotter wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But money got both of them to the stage. So what? They lost comprehensively. The point of politics isn’t to be heard. It’s to win so you can get what you want done done. If being heard led to political change US politics would be a great deal more libertarian. You don’t just need to be heard you need to persuade people to believe what you believe and to vote for you. Money doesn’t do that. It buys you a bigger mega…

> you need to persuade people to believe what you believe and to vote for you. Money doesn’t do that. It buys you a bigger megaphone.. A megaphone is a naive and unsuitable analogy. Money buys you the two-party system where the only viable candidates are the ones that have been paid for, that do the bidding of the lobbyists and special interests that actually dictate national policies and run the country. Money buys…

I saw how money partially bought the presidency. (people actually love him, but the big luxurious personal jet certainly helped in the primary) In this case I don't mind. He's a good man. His money makes him far less tempted by bribes. The adventure has cost him over a billion dollars. Our more typical presidents get rich from the experience, despite the salary being pitiful. The US president gets paid like a San Francisco software developer, yet has the responsibility for running a nation with a GDP of roughly 20 trillion dollars. Somehow that pitiful salary turns into riches for most politicians. It's really delightful to see a president who is in it for fame and for duty to his nation.

Re: Activists find camera inside box on power pole near union organizer’s home

#182

Post by dvtrn » Sat, Aug 22, 2020, 10:37 PM UTC

kbenson wrote: post #108

dvtrn wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you've spoken with actual police officers much I’m sorry you think that, you’d be wrong on the assumption though.

If you're going to take the time to respond to the throwaway portion of the comment, why not respond to the actual counterpoint which was the reason for the comment?

Didn’t feel like it. But thanks for asking

Re: Activists find camera inside box on power pole near union organizer’s home

#183

Post by riffic » Sun, Aug 23, 2020, 12:08 AM UTC

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #50

ahelwer wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not ironic at all. Police are the agents of capital and their union is thus in service of capital, not labor. They are conspicuously the only union which isn't protested very much by the powers that be. The union protects police from retribution by the people against whom they mete out punishment, who are essentially never capitalists. To put it another way, there is zero solidarity between police unions and unions o…

Police are agents of the state and the state serves nothing but itself.

This is such an unenlightened comment, in an era where money buys political power (Lessig's "economy of influence" might be worth looking into).

Re: Activists find camera inside box on power pole near union organizer’s home

#184

Post by throwaway0a5e » Sun, Aug 23, 2020, 2:28 AM UTC

riffic wrote: post #183

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Police are agents of the state and the state serves nothing but itself.

This is such an unenlightened comment, in an era where money buys political power (Lessig's "economy of influence" might be worth looking into).

The state will about face and serve the people the nanosecond they start looking like they're gonna become a serious problem for the stability of the state.

The reason money buys power is because the people are divided or don't care. Money only wins when all else is equal.

Re: Activists find camera inside box on power pole near union organizer’s home

#185

Post by IncRnd » Sun, Aug 23, 2020, 4:31 AM UTC

LoSboccacc wrote: post #132

IncRnd wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.google.com/search?q=police+beatings+europe&sourc...

ah, lazily sourced anecdotes presented as data, pinnacle hn third image is already from 2014, not an impressive case density then, is it?

That's absurd. Your parent post said, "most society sectors that happens to be outside America". All it takes to disprove is a few examples. I showed you a search link to pages of them.

Don't be lazy, blaming others for an unscientific bias in your own post is a logical fallacy.

Re: Activists find camera inside box on power pole near union organizer’s home

#186

Post by LoSboccacc » Sun, Aug 23, 2020, 5:52 AM UTC

IncRnd wrote: post #185

LoSboccacc wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ah, lazily sourced anecdotes presented as data, pinnacle hn third image is already from 2014, not an impressive case density then, is it?

That's absurd. Your parent post said, "most society sectors that happens to be outside America". All it takes to disprove is a few examples. I showed you a search link to pages of them. Don't be lazy, blaming others for an unscientific bias in your own post is a logical fallacy.

so one case e every four year average is enough to claim that all police is as antagonistic as USA's

sure.

Re: Activists find camera inside box on power pole near union organizer’s home

#187

Post by IncRnd » Sun, Aug 23, 2020, 6:06 AM UTC

LoSboccacc wrote: post #186

IncRnd wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's absurd. Your parent post said, "most society sectors that happens to be outside America". All it takes to disprove is a few examples. I showed you a search link to pages of them. Don't be lazy, blaming others for an unscientific bias in your own post is a logical fallacy.

so one case e every four year average is enough to claim that all police is as antagonistic as USA's sure.

Why do you keep changing the subject of the discussion?

First, you wrote that most police and police unions are not antagonistic towards sectors outside of the usa.

Now, you wrote what is called a red-herring or a strawman.

You made a very strong but incorrect statement at first. Strong statements are easy to debunk, just with a little proof. I provided a link to pages of that. It's very telling that you now characterize that as "one case every four year average". That's telling, indeed.

Re: Activists find camera inside box on power pole near union organizer’s home

#188

Post by moltar » Sun, Aug 23, 2020, 8:28 AM UTC

frabbit wrote: post #27

moltar wrote: post #4

Can someone from the US please explain why would police surveil a union organizer? How is s/he a threat to the public?

Why do you think it is just the USA? Are you genuinely surprised or this just a baity-get-things-rolling type of question? Just off the top of my head this is one of the most famous (exposed) examples in the UK https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47457330 Police were created explicitly to help with suppressing the threat that comes from anyone that earns their living by a wage from others.

Sorry for sounding baity. It was a genuine question as I don’t see the connection. I’ve never been in a union, but my understanding was that it was just a contract between a private corporation and it’s workforce. I just don’t see how the police has any interest in this.

Re: Activists find camera inside box on power pole near union organizer’s home

#189

Post by lioeters » Sun, Aug 23, 2020, 8:52 AM UTC

burfog wrote: post #181

lioeters wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you need to persuade people to believe what you believe and to vote for you. Money doesn’t do that. It buys you a bigger megaphone.. A megaphone is a naive and unsuitable analogy. Money buys you the two-party system where the only viable candidates are the ones that have been paid for, that do the bidding of the lobbyists and special interests that actually dictate national policies and run the country. Money buys…

I saw how money partially bought the presidency. (people actually love him, but the big luxurious personal jet certainly helped in the primary) In this case I don't mind. He's a good man. His money makes him far less tempted by bribes. The adventure has cost him over a billion dollars. Our more typical presidents get rich from the experience, despite the salary being pitiful. The US president gets paid like a San Fra…

> He's a good man.

We can agree to disagree on this point. :)

It is interesting to hear the other side of the argument. Perhaps I've become cynical over the years, witnessing what "duty to nation" really means in practice.

As far as national interest goes, public well-being seems low in priority, far below enriching those who hold the reins of power. The attempts to justify these skewed priorities, in my opinion, fall apart from the view of the people, who must live with the resulting social conditions.

Re: Activists find camera inside box on power pole near union organizer’s home

#190

Post by LoSboccacc » Sun, Aug 23, 2020, 9:03 AM UTC

IncRnd wrote: post #187

LoSboccacc wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so one case e every four year average is enough to claim that all police is as antagonistic as USA's sure.

Why do you keep changing the subject of the discussion? First, you wrote that most police and police unions are not antagonistic towards sectors outside of the usa. Now, you wrote what is called a red-herring or a strawman. You made a very strong but incorrect statement at first. Strong statements are easy to debunk, just with a little proof. I provided a link to pages of that. It's very telling that you now characte…

funny you call Google searches as proof and debunking, when they are at most confirmation bias, since they only return what you ask for.

if you think that is research, there's no more point to discuss.

the statement stands. the fear of police is deeply ingrained in the American society and the antagonism is deeply American.

dropping fallacy names at random is not gonna help your case either.

the populace here deeply trusts and support the police. there have been few bad cases and the individuals responsible were immediately ousted and eventually had justice brought to them, with little to none cameradrie that you'd see in the 'police Vs everyone' characterization you're trying to blanket upon the world.

there's zero systemic abuse of justice of the likes that we see in the American news circles, no matter how you wish that the rest of the world is as bad as they are, it is not.