Why forgiving someone else is about you • Hacker News Board

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#181

Post by mensetmanusman » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 6:20 PM UTC

This is helped with practice.

Our family’s cultural/religious background instills this process from a young age. Every evening, starting with the youngest child, everyone has a chance to say what they are thankful for that day and they are also given space to say ‘I’m sorry if they feel they have wronged anyone.’

We teach the other children not to respond “that’s okay” but “I forgive you” to properly acknowledge the wrongdoing.

It’s amazing how joyful children get with these simple rituals.

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#182

Post by waterhouse » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 6:22 PM UTC

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #104

lotsofpulp wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what definition of revenge everyone is using, but if revenge means consequences for the perpetrator, then it could help the victim by sending a message to future perpetrators.

It could in principle, but in practice I think the situations where it would are very rare. If you discovered that coworker A took revenge against coworker B by sabotaging their project, would that make you more likely to deal with A fairly or just less likely to deal with them at all?

Sabotaging their project has collateral damage to the company and to everyone else who was involved with the project or depended on it—unless it was a one-person project that didn't really matter. Collateral damage to innocents is bad form.

If A's revenge took the form of damaging B's car (not while anyone was in it) and costing thousands of dollars in repairs... Well, it would depend on just what B had done to A, and what alternatives A had. But if B had previously inflicted the same magnitude of economic damage on A, and perhaps gloated that there was no way for A to prove it, then... I think the main thing I'd feel for A is respect.

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#183

Post by 08-15 » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 6:23 PM UTC

joelmichael wrote: post #124

sngz wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll have to disagree with that. I cut out a bunch of toxic people from my life and moved across the country and I still hate them but people like them don't come across my mind at all unless mutual acquaintances bring them up. I even came across my bully from middle school in a random city I visited, and had drinks with him and his girlfriend that he was calling a retard throughout the whole night and was clear that…

Haha, yeah, that doesn't sound bitter and hateful at all.

This sounds like "You're just bitter and hateful!", but with sarcasm mixed in.

That you can put a label on an emotion doesn't make it go away, nor does it make the emotion unreasonable. It does make you look like an asshole without any empathy, though.

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#184

Post by adamsea » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 6:25 PM UTC

scottious wrote: post #25

As somebody who's struggling to forgive somebody who's wronged me, I find this article to be a bit wishy-washy, like this: > Reexamine your perceptions of life events that have trapped you in the role of victim. well, what if somebody really truly was a victim? What if one's parents have condescended and belittled them for decades? What if one's mother is abusive and drinks too much? What if somebody spent their enti…

FWIW what the article says about the nature of (most, not all) anger echoes some of the best advice I ever got:

'Holub calls anger a "secondary emotion," one that guards our more vulnerable feelings, such as grief, fear, abandonment and disappointment.'

Most of the time (but not always), anger is a barrier to self-consciousness.

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#185

Post by M0T0K0 » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 6:25 PM UTC

basch wrote: post #179

M0T0K0 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I forgive myself for being naive and uninformed. Why would I need to forgive myself for someone else's actions and consequences? Fuck all of that. I sleep more soundly with each day that I remind myself "This other person does not live in reality, move on". Long stopped having "panic attacks" 10 years ago. Coincidentally, right around the time I began to question the abuser's facade. And you do want a relationship wi…

>"This other person does not live in reality, move on". That is basically forgiveness. It's not a gift you give them, its not letting them off the hook. To forgive someone, they do not need to be aware you have done so. It's you taking control of the damage they did to you, and moving beyond it hurting you further.

Perhaps. I disagree with the general assumption associated with notions of forgiveness that this also means letting go of anger, however. Anger gets shit done.

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#186

Post by globular-toast » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 6:29 PM UTC

My ex and first love cheated on me in the worst possible way. I'm certain I've been through a kind of grief that few people will ever experience as a result. But I just got over it. I forgave her in the sense that I understand what women are like now. She can't affect me any more. I've become so much stronger. I'm Stoic now. Time is the great healer as always. Therapy and all the rest of it are a massive swindle for the instant gratification age.

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#187

Post by woko » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 6:29 PM UTC

M0T0K0 wrote: post #161

pastage wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you do not want a relationship with someone, forgiveness is a way to feel better yourself. It's not about making some one else better, it's about your quality of life. After ten years I'm almost there, but it got better after my first step of deciding to forgive, still get panic attacks though.

I forgive myself for being naive and uninformed. Why would I need to forgive myself for someone else's actions and consequences? Fuck all of that. I sleep more soundly with each day that I remind myself "This other person does not live in reality, move on". Long stopped having "panic attacks" 10 years ago. Coincidentally, right around the time I began to question the abuser's facade. And you do want a relationship wi…

I get your point, but I don't get how it diverges from what was described in the article. Based on what you wrote, it looks to me that you are actually very advanced in the process of forgiveness: telling your story, expressing your feelings, seeing your childhood through the eyes of yourself as an adult, focusing on your well-being in the present and in the future.

> they keep digging up the past and weaponizing your own failures against you in everyday fucking conversation.

I know that. You have no idea how much your post hits home. This kind of behaviour is exactly what I try not to replicate, because it is the best way to dig one's own grave. There is nothing good which can come out of it.

I think you have an issue with the word "forgiveness", and maybe it is not the right word. What I understand from its use in the article is being able to let go the hatred (way stronger than anger), and being able to focus on yourself in order to improve your well-being and to bring positivity into your present and future life.

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#188

Post by M0T0K0 » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 6:33 PM UTC

nitrogen wrote: post #178

M0T0K0 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. So many here have not had to deal with extensive emotional trauma brought upon manipulations, oversights, ignorance, inexperience, etc. of a parent who was totally a victim too, but THIS DOES NOT NEGATE HOW DANGEROUS they can be. My own mother whom was beaten and abused by an alcoholic grandmother will tragically never be capable of seeing her own faults due to the trauma that basically arrested her development…

I wonder how widespread this is under the radar. It seems like something people don't really talk about.

I suspect a lot of my millennial peers deal with it a lot.

Many of us made "surrogate families" and group houses well into our 30's out of our groups of friends probably for similar reasons. A few grew apart for similar reasons (i.e. one or more people having un-diagnosed personality disorders and/or un-dealt with emotional trauma that hampers their interpersonal relationships).

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#189

Post by ta1234567890 » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 6:34 PM UTC

yarrel wrote: post #168

ta1234567890 wrote: post #142

"Hating someone is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die" Recently I realized I was poisoning myself with intense negative thoughts and feelings about someone. Then I also noticed those thoughts feelings were only impacting me, not the other person at all. Finally I decided to forgive that person for what they had done to me, and when I started that process it became evident that in order to acco…

"Forgiving someone who hasn't changed is like encouraging a poisoner."

Like the article says, it's about you, not about them.

In that sense, forgiveness is about an internal change of your feelings so that you can lead a better life without hate. It is not about condoning what others did. And it's very helpful to differentiate between them.

Re: Why forgiving someone else is about you

#190

Post by notadonut » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 6:43 PM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #52

scottious wrote: post #25

As somebody who's struggling to forgive somebody who's wronged me, I find this article to be a bit wishy-washy, like this: > Reexamine your perceptions of life events that have trapped you in the role of victim. well, what if somebody really truly was a victim? What if one's parents have condescended and belittled them for decades? What if one's mother is abusive and drinks too much? What if somebody spent their enti…

I certainly agree; the signal to noise ratio is poor about why this stuff is a good idea. But it does get at some practical issues that are quite subtly layered: 1. Be realistic about what is likely to happen. If someone has a history of drinking and hasn't committed to stopping then they will probably continue. 'Forgiveness' doesn't mean stupid. 2. Don't make the past emotional. If someone chopped my leg off, for a…

Revenge is underrated. The opportunities to avenge oneself without also shooting oneself in the foot, or entering an endless cycle of reciprocal vendettas, are very rare. But when they do come, the closure is liberating.