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US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

arstechnica.com

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Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#181

Post by jessaustin »

slimed wrote: post #171
dependenttypes wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is better in terms of handling its own citizens compared to China but they are much worse in terms of international affairs. Consider https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r... or the bombing of civilians in middle east with killer drones.

Let's check back in a few decades and see if this still holds true. I suspect the current disparity is due the US holding the title of unchecked global super power for the past century while China is still getting up to speed. What happens when Belt & Road initiatives start to be expropriated by radical populist governments in the 2040's?

Do you think it will take that long? Surely China will expect its investments to start paying back before 2040?

This still seems like a strange, "pre-crime" sort of standard to which to hold China. You're almost counting USA misdeeds against China: "since USA did all these horrible things, you can be sure China will do even worse, someday!"

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#182

Post by Aperocky »

Enginerrrd wrote: post #102
syshum wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as a US Resident, China has no authority to murder me or put me in a cage like the US Government does. So if I had to choose I would prefer china over the NSA, Of course neither is the best option but ..... if I lived in China the inverse would be true

This is dangerously naieve and short-sighted. Look at how readily China already uses our own corporations against us. ESPN showed a map of china with the nine-dash-line. Hollywood won't dare to offend the Chinese government. Our tech companies are willingly censoring themselves. Our corporations influence our politicians, and China is exerting influence on our corporations. If they have access to an enormous volume o…

> You think they’re going to be friendlier to American citizens?

Yes, because American citizens are none of their business. Law enforcement and prosecution on the other hand is very interested.

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#183

Post by jessaustin »

ASalazarMX wrote: post #36
wlkr wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have an answer for this question but just to play devil's advocate, is this universally true or just sometimes true for governments and certain corporations? For example, as a citizen, is my data really better off with an ally, who can use it to exploit me instantly and personally? E.g. searches for medical information increasing insurance costs.

As regular nobodies, our data is probably distributed in the hands of both allies and non-allies. As long as there's such a strong push, both commercially and institutionally, for tracking and data mining, our only recourse is going offline. No one wants our specific dental bills, mortgages or tax returns, but governments and corporations love mass statistics.

As soon as you're a "problem", e.g. because of a large insured event or ownership of property that someone wants to buy below the market, you're on someone's radar. At that point you no longer get the "regular nobody" defense.

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#184

Post by Scoundreller »

predakanga wrote: post #133
dustfinger wrote: post #100

Note: The following might be considered off-topic. On the otherhand, there might be something nefarious in the SMS network. I found something strange that affects SMS in Canada. You can send the lower case text "secure communication", but it will never be recieved by the recipient. I am not sure if this behavior is reproducible outside of Canada. It might be a software defect, or perhaps there is something capturing…

It's a bit of a leap to assume that behavior like that is evidence of nefarious activity; ask yourself, if you were implementing some sort of secret signalling layer, would you design one that uses simple English words, and whose failure state reveals its presence? Consider the other cases - it could be something like an anti-spam system; back when MSN Messenger was a thing, it would abruptly close any conversations…

> back when MSN Messenger was a thing, it would abruptly close any conversations in which certain virus-related keywords were said

On MSN Messenger, one way around swear words in your username/status was to use the ASCII equivalent for a letter, which would get skip the filter but render as the letter.

So I looked a little down in my chart and hoped that 0x7 for BELL would do something, but it didn’t.

But 0x0 for NULL would cause all members of your contact list to immediately sign out and back in ad Infinitum.

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#185

Post by dependenttypes »

kelnos wrote: post #178
dependenttypes wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this also pretty much the case with American companies? The only difference is that they need a warrant (which should be pretty easy to get). Anyway, there is a new bill trying to kill e2ee in America https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22202110

Yes and no. There are some specific carve-outs for telecom companies that their networks must have the ability to tap into specific traffic when a government agency comes knocking with a warrant. But, as you point out, backdoor-free e2e encryption is not yet illegal, and the US gov't can't force e.g. Apple to put a backdoor in iMessage or in iOS's device encryption. I expect that this is not the case in China; if the…

> and we can affect that process

In theory, in the same sense that one could influence what CCP does by becoming a member of it and rising through the ranks.

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#186

Post by toohotatopic »

80386 wrote: post #115
throwaway17_17 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the fact that China has not engaged in non-local applications of violence, they must be better than the US? That seems to be an amazingly narrow standard, because by that measure any country which carries out atrocities on its own population is 'better' than the US. I understand, even if I may not agree, some individual's dislike of American foreign policy, but to equate America's actions in the last 20 years…

> Because the fact that China has not engaged in non-local applications of violence Yet. The PRC has been internationally relevant for a few decades. The US has been internationally relevant practically since its founding. And for whatever reason, people don't think the PRC has continuity with pre-Mao China -- which has been internationally relevant since long before the US existed, and which doesn't have a very nice…

[flagged]

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#187

Post by Scoundreller »

scarejunba wrote: post #177
dustfinger wrote: post #100

Note: The following might be considered off-topic. On the otherhand, there might be something nefarious in the SMS network. I found something strange that affects SMS in Canada. You can send the lower case text "secure communication", but it will never be recieved by the recipient. I am not sure if this behavior is reproducible outside of Canada. It might be a software defect, or perhaps there is something capturing…

I found that an international SMS containing the entire text for a Wells Fargo SMS 2-factor code from the US to the UK doesn't deliver. Found that interesting. I could get it to deliver US to US, though.

A lot of shortcode systems fall apart outside of their home system.

These are common problems for those that try to go “data-only” and sign up for a virtual SMS service: they can’t receive 2FA SMSs.

I guess the positive is that it’s hard(er) for a bad actor to pretend to be bigger than they are.

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#188

Post by kube-system »

owenmarshall wrote: post #175
kube-system wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see any reason why I would be afforded any more legal protections than they give to their own citizens, do you?

I would assume I am afforded less legal protections than a Chinese citizen! But here's the thing: with the platonic ideal of "civil liberties" in mind that might bother me, but practically speaking? Chinese legal protections or threats have no bearing on me. None whatsoever. I don't have a secret clearance. I don't know anyone who does. I don't know anything of significant value to the Chinese state that they couldn'…

You're only thinking about it in the context of your own personal information, though.

There will also be effects on your peers, neighbors, and society around you. There are nation-state actors currently using stolen data for blackmail, extortion, and propaganda campaigns, to influence the economic and political stability of other nations.

Whether or not you are a direct target, you will be affected in some way. While you feel much more closely connected to your local government, they are not generally acting out of malice.

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#189

Post by toohotatopic »

blaser-waffle wrote: post #107
env123 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opium wars

Not the US

But close:

>Opium profits funded many leading Boston institutions. Thomas Perkins and a brother helped found Massachusetts General Hospital, left, and Perkins donated one of his homes for a new school that ...

https://www.wbur.org/commonhealth/2017/07/31/opium-boston-hi...

Re: US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

#190

Post by [deleted] »

Aperocky wrote: post #182
Enginerrrd wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is dangerously naieve and short-sighted. Look at how readily China already uses our own corporations against us. ESPN showed a map of china with the nine-dash-line. Hollywood won't dare to offend the Chinese government. Our tech companies are willingly censoring themselves. Our corporations influence our politicians, and China is exerting influence on our corporations. If they have access to an enormous volume o…

> You think they’re going to be friendlier to American citizens? Yes, because American citizens are none of their business. Law enforcement and prosecution on the other hand is very interested.

[deleted]
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