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What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

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Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#181

Post by mlyle »

savanaly wrote: post #176
vector_spaces wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked these gigs before, and so have friends of mine with advanced STEM degrees. Sometimes you are stuck between a rock and a hard place (usually you are, if you're low income) and your current dilemma is between not being able to afford your rent tomorrow or food tonight, and working some exploitative app gig like this. So cool the condescension. Poor folks -- even those with really low numeracy -- are general…

None of all of what you wrote addresses how those folks between a rock and a hard place will be better off not having the option to work for a given service at all.

Because these exploitative schemes displace other delivery jobs and services that work under fairer terms.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#182

Post by vector_spaces »

savanaly wrote: post #176
vector_spaces wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked these gigs before, and so have friends of mine with advanced STEM degrees. Sometimes you are stuck between a rock and a hard place (usually you are, if you're low income) and your current dilemma is between not being able to afford your rent tomorrow or food tonight, and working some exploitative app gig like this. So cool the condescension. Poor folks -- even those with really low numeracy -- are general…

None of all of what you wrote addresses how those folks between a rock and a hard place will be better off not having the option to work for a given service at all.

I'm not saying that they would be -- correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think that has been a point of discussion.

A job/app gig can both exploit someone and also give them the ability to survive where they might have few options otherwise. See sweatshops and the agricultural industry for example

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#183

Post by triceratops »

jefftk wrote: post #69
triceratops wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Becoming a commodity supplier to an aggregator is a losing proposition. If the value is in delivering the food, restaurants slowly stop being able to differentiate based on branding, experience, presentation, location, or offering and instead compete mostly on price and speed. It's a shit position to be in.

Can't they still differentiate on the food? What they put on their menu, how it tastes, etc?

They have no control over the rest of the experience: how it's plated and presented, how it's transported, the temperature it's served at, music and ambience etc. One pizza tastes much like another after it's been cooling for 30 minutes. Pretty soon, you don't even need a restaurant to cook the food, only a cloud kitchen. And why would cloud kitchens be owned and run by restauranteurs? It's much cheaper for the delivery company to hire a bunch of cooks to develop and cook menus for "different" restaurants that share the same facilities, suppliers and staff.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#184

Post by frabcus »

kragen wrote: post #180
dmode wrote: post #160

Why can’t we have normal businesses where you employ your workers and charge your customers the real cost of the transaction ? If that is not viable, don’t start the business to begin with. Let’s just go back to first principles, can we ?

If you try to compete with DoorDash using that model, you will either have to charge much higher prices than they do, or you will lose money on every transaction. Either way you will go out of business as long as DoorDash or similar companies are able to compete with you.

Indeed, which is why it is the system that has to be changed. Some things can't be solved by individual entrepreneurial action.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#185

Post by onion2k »

kragen wrote: post #180
dmode wrote: post #160

Why can’t we have normal businesses where you employ your workers and charge your customers the real cost of the transaction ? If that is not viable, don’t start the business to begin with. Let’s just go back to first principles, can we ?

If you try to compete with DoorDash using that model, you will either have to charge much higher prices than they do, or you will lose money on every transaction. Either way you will go out of business as long as DoorDash or similar companies are able to compete with you.

Maybe I should budget for some labor law lobbyists then.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#186

Post by deanCommie »

sombremesa wrote: post #170
dmode wrote: post #160

Why can’t we have normal businesses where you employ your workers and charge your customers the real cost of the transaction ? If that is not viable, don’t start the business to begin with. Let’s just go back to first principles, can we ?

Because these companies are still finding enough labor after lowering what they pay out drastically. It's the market in action. You're right that as a society we have a duty to step in with policy here, as we do with minimum wage, but this isn't a violation of "first principles".

Companies found plenty of child labour back in the day as well.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#187

Post by mlyle »

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #90
BurningFrog wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This begs an obvious question: why are people choosing to do this if it pays $0/hr? The obvious answer is that it actually pays more.

I am curious about how they selected workers to sample. If the advertisement was, "Pissed about your DoorDash wages? Share them with us!" or anything similar, I'm not sure what conclusions can be drawn from the analysis.

Though it's not likely too distorted, because the average hourly gross pay was similar to what DoorDash cites [we can't tell how close because DD doesn't explain their exact methodology]; just the net pay is very low.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#188

Post by tick_tock_tick »

gvjddbnvdrbv wrote: post #179
savanaly wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of all of what you wrote addresses how those folks between a rock and a hard place will be better off not having the option to work for a given service at all.

Because people still want food cooked and delivered and to use taxis. If the non financially viable companies did not exist then financially viable ones would.

These people often have reasons why they are not already working a more classic job and are unlikely be hired or in some cases want to work under whatever new standards and time commitments required for full time employees of these apps.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#189

Post by mlyle »

kingkawn wrote: post #155
cc439 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"However, if a worker rejects too many jobs too frequently, they may receive fewer job offers as a result." They take those jobs because they lose all access to the chance of profitable jobs otherwise. The people working for door dash aren't exactly the sort of person with the ability to fully understand probabilities and statistics either. I'd say it's fair to assume their business model works by bullying the same p…

Do not condescend the poor.

Don't dismiss a line of argument without actually refuting it in some way.

Re: What DoorDash pays, after expenses, and what’s happening with tips

#190

Post by paulddraper »

dmode wrote: post #160

Why can’t we have normal businesses where you employ your workers and charge your customers the real cost of the transaction ? If that is not viable, don’t start the business to begin with. Let’s just go back to first principles, can we ?

We can have those businesses.

They just don't make as much money, so are inferior.

Unless of course, customers don't tip. Then your suggestion is not an inferior competitor.

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