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Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment

nytimes.com

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Re: Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment

#181

Post by perl4ever »

melvinroest wrote: post #102
cletus wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like the company made the right decision based on your words alone. The tone of your description of their "CRUD applications" comes across as dismissive. What the company wants is people who are happy to work there or at least not unhappy enough to leave (and, even better, will keep their unhappiness to themselves). The company wants this more than technical ability. You might be really talented but it seem…

Note: I see you're being downvoted. While your comment may sound harsh, I see it as well meant advice and take the candor of the message as something valuable. And now that I think of it, I can definitely see that I come across as submissive. I'm reflecting on myself on whether I am dismissive, which I find very tough to answer (on the one hand no because CRUD apps are valuable, on the other hand yes, because CRUD ap…

Something it took me a long time to see clearly -

People talk about all sorts of things they supposedly need to have satisfaction in their work, but they are mostly red herrings. People get obsessed with benefits and qualifications and pay and titles and status and all sorts of nebulous things when they know they are missing something, but don't know what.

What matters is a sense that you are doing meaningful work. All the other stuff, like the technologies you work with, the quality of your co-workers and management, the free coffee and lunch or lack thereof, will not provide substitutes in the long run.

And, by "meaningful", I don't mean glamorous, change-the-world stuff that appeals to vanity. Clearing out drains (or the IT equivalent) is useful and meaningful. By lack of meaning, I'm talking about anything that amounts to digging ditches to fill them in again.

Unfortunately, most job ads and recruiters assume that who you work for and why don't matter much at all - they just are looking for someone with a list of tech skills to plug in to a machine.

So, I would say what's worked to some extent for me is temping and volunteering and getting to know different people and organizations.

Re: Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment

#182

Post by 77pt77 »

gwbas1c wrote: post #155
77pt77 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm not a doctor, so it's not my place to judge or diagnose anybody for their mental health issues. Yet that's exactly what you just did. I suspect that your mental health cop out is nothing but a rationalization for your unfounded biases.

Well, you weren't part of the interviews, so you have no business deciding if we made the right call to reject particular candidates. I can tell you that these were very obvious "no" situations. In one case, the candidate was incompetent and only made it to on-site because of a horrible HR snafu. The resume shouldn't have made it past screening. In another case, the candidate nearly started an argument with me over w…

Thank you for confirming my suspicions.

Best of luck.

Re: Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment

#183

Post by Aeolun »

chooseaname wrote: post #52
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right! Engineers driving busses; office managers flipping burgers. And the administration dares to call it 'full employment'. Its part of the very wealthy keeping all the money - if nobody has a skilled job, we don't get (much) income, and wealth inequality zooms onward. A better measure of employment would be, how much total payroll is across the country. Per capita if you like. That would tell us how we're doing. N…

> Its part of the very wealthy keeping all the money ... When does it start trickling down Mr Reagan?! When does it start trickling down!?

It’s already tricking down. Just not anywhere near enough to make a difference.

Re: Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment

#184

Post by Aeolun »

melvinroest wrote: post #102
cletus wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like the company made the right decision based on your words alone. The tone of your description of their "CRUD applications" comes across as dismissive. What the company wants is people who are happy to work there or at least not unhappy enough to leave (and, even better, will keep their unhappiness to themselves). The company wants this more than technical ability. You might be really talented but it seem…

Note: I see you're being downvoted. While your comment may sound harsh, I see it as well meant advice and take the candor of the message as something valuable. And now that I think of it, I can definitely see that I come across as submissive. I'm reflecting on myself on whether I am dismissive, which I find very tough to answer (on the one hand no because CRUD apps are valuable, on the other hand yes, because CRUD ap…

From my perspective as interviewer:

- No university student actually knows how to code until they prove otherwise, this is why a portfolio is so important. University assignments count too if they’re complex enough.

- If I’m going to hire them they’d better be here for a few years because I’m going to spend months getting them up to speed, so someone that clearly doesn’t like working on my stuff is out (of course I’m aware we make boring software, but you need to at least show some enthusiasm for the process if not the result).

- I don’t give more than a passing glance to academic qualifications. Especially in the Netherlands, if you finish uni I have a pretty good idea what you are capable off in general terms. A fast track would be nice if you otherwise know what to do, but that last is way more important.

There are plenty of challenges in building CRUD apps, and none of them have to do with coding. In fact, I’d argue that most of the challenge of development of anything does not come from coding at all once you reach a certain degree of competence (expectation management, time management, etc.)

Anyhow, most of the valuable software in the world is a CRUD app (think Facebook?), so it’s one of the most likely things you’ll work on.

Re: Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment

#185

Post by rileymat2 »

VladimirIvanov wrote: post #165
chooseaname wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Its part of the very wealthy keeping all the money ... When does it start trickling down Mr Reagan?! When does it start trickling down!?

When corporations stop using stock buybacks as a tax free mechanism to return value to shareholders

I believe buybacks have the same long term capital gain consequences as dividends, currently. The party who sells stock at a profit will pay tax, it is not tax free.

Buybacks allow shareholders to time capital gain better.

Re: Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment

#187

Post by sage76 »

Jugglerofworlds wrote: post #166
Nasrudith wrote: post #161

Really I have gotten the impression from my experience that employers tend to be irrationally picky and arbitrary about employees. They dismiss perfectly good canidates for "culture fit" or able to bullshit flatter their ego enough or for not having magical 2-5 years of experience for entry level. Yet if you have them or have a full time job they dogpile you with recruitment attempts - and spend years trying to fill…

God forbid you make a small mistake on a technical interview or don't know the "trick" to answer a leetcode question. Any small mistake is enough to crucify you, and previous employment experience is ignored in favor of basing 100% on technical interviews.

> Any small mistake is enough to crucify you

Completely true. If you don't immediately and perfectly know the most efficient algo to solve graph inversion or whatever random problem they found on leetcode that day, kiss any chances of a callback goodbye.

Oh and be prepared for a hundred rounds of relentless grilling.

I don't know why it gets peddled around that it's easy to find jobs in CS. It seems as hard as finding a break in hollywood.

Re: Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment

#188

Post by perl4ever »

gwbas1c wrote: post #155
77pt77 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm not a doctor, so it's not my place to judge or diagnose anybody for their mental health issues. Yet that's exactly what you just did. I suspect that your mental health cop out is nothing but a rationalization for your unfounded biases.

Well, you weren't part of the interviews, so you have no business deciding if we made the right call to reject particular candidates. I can tell you that these were very obvious "no" situations. In one case, the candidate was incompetent and only made it to on-site because of a horrible HR snafu. The resume shouldn't have made it past screening. In another case, the candidate nearly started an argument with me over w…

"Both of these candidates were fundamentally unfit for office work"

This is the sort of thing that sounds very bleak to people who imagine being judged the same way, possibly unfairly. And it's even more painful because someone on the cusp may not be sure themselves that they can or can't function.

However, it can be empowering, in that someone recovering from health issues can realize that technical chops are almost entirely irrelevant; the task is just to convince the interviewer that they can and want to come to work every day and grind it out, and if a person truly knows their own ability to do so, it is possible to convince other people.

Unfortunately it's terrifying to hear that success depends on belief, because bootstrapping yourself from not being employable seems like a contradiction in terms. It can make people very bitter when they believe their only chance of survival is to behave in a way they don't feel.

Re: Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment

#189

Post by claudiulodro »

sdinsn wrote: post #169
listenallyall wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot: 1. Pay for a subscription. No 2. 3. or 4.

You forgot: 1. Just never go on or support any website with a paywall No 2. 3. or 4.

Why? Would you also never buy a magazine or print newspaper? Subscriptions are the best way to have a sustainable news site that isn't an ad-infested mess.

Re: Lots of Job Hunting, but No Job, Despite Low Unemployment

#190

Post by crb002 »

Unemployment numbers in Iowa are 100% rigged. They shortened the window from 2 weeks to 1 week to make continuing claims throwing many off the rolls. There is also a benefit cliff that screws workers penny for penny out of side hustle income over $100/week giving them little motivation to file claims despite making less than $600/week.

Also the system is rigged against minimum wage workers. They have to work weeks longer than $100k wage employees to qualify for coverage.

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