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1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

nytimes.com

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Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#181

Post by comicjk »

jliptzin wrote: post #66

Last month I was moving out of an apartment in midtown. My entire block, avenue to avenue, is a no standing zone for some reason. The doorman said it was just changed a couple years ago. I rented a moving truck, parked it in a garage for $60 while I finished packing up, moved the truck to the building entrance where UPS/Fedex trucks are constantly parking, put the hazards on and loaded up the truck with my stuff as f…

There's a clear public interest in preventing standing vehicles from blocking midtown traffic. My friends have dealt with this by sheer numbers: when one friend is moving, a dozen show up to do the quick transfer from sidewalk to truck. It's still against the rules, but fast enough that you would be unlikely to be ticketed.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#182

Post by jcranmer »

nemo44x wrote: post #180
jcranmer wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That $600/month is roughly the land value of of the parking space. Were the parking free, you would be paying that money implicitly through higher rents. A car in Manhattan is definitely a luxury item: space is at a premium, and single-occupant vehicles are the least efficient use of that space. If you want to use that space so wastefully, I see no reason why you shouldn't be charged the full cost of that decision.

Should we then charge money for entrance to the bike lane? I don’t own a car but I have friends with children, others who drive ride share, and many other reasons why they need a car. They can’t afford to pay for a garage (many people live in subsidized or rent controlled places) and don’t need a bike. What should they do?

You haven't given any actual reasons why someone needs a car so badly that the government ought to subsidize their ownership of one. Having small kids is not enough--and yes, I am well acquainted with the logistics of traveling with infants and toddlers. Even needing to drive for your job isn't enough: if a car is a requisite part of the job, it's the employer's responsibility to provide materials or sufficient compensation for the employee to do it. (This is where I note that ride-sharing firms are basically relying on drivers not realizing they're insufficiently compensated for the costs of actually driving).

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#183

Post by Spooky23 »

crazygringo wrote: post #40

The problem isn't trucks -- obviously, it's hugely more efficient for a single truck+driver to deliver 100's of packages in a single day than for 100's of individual people to spend an hour each going to/from a store, and even worse for congestion if even more than a few are taking individual vehicles. The problem is parking. And the solution is obvious: multiple truck-length parking spaces along each and every block…

It means a lot, and no it doesn’t have much at all to do with parking.

Almost all parcel deliveries are considered urgent, if not they should be using the USPS.

Being anti-parking, but wanting to assign swaths for the exclusive use of trucks seems like a schizophrenic perspective to me.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#184

Post by nemo44x »

jcranmer wrote: post #182
nemo44x wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should we then charge money for entrance to the bike lane? I don’t own a car but I have friends with children, others who drive ride share, and many other reasons why they need a car. They can’t afford to pay for a garage (many people live in subsidized or rent controlled places) and don’t need a bike. What should they do?

You haven't given any actual reasons why someone needs a car so badly that the government ought to subsidize their ownership of one. Having small kids is not enough--and yes, I am well acquainted with the logistics of traveling with infants and toddlers. Even needing to drive for your job isn't enough: if a car is a requisite part of the job, it's the employer's responsibility to provide materials or sufficient compe…

Why do we need bike lanes? Why should the government subsidize them? Use public transit. Bike lanes are absolutely not subsidized by the bike riding tax base. It’s a hand out.

It’s the exact same thing.

People with cars need to park them. Many people can’t afford a garage. You don’t own the street spot and have to move it daily. Many street parkers have to walk many blocks to their cars.

Regardless of why people have cars, they do. They pay sales tax on them, registration tax, and fuel tax. Not to mention parking tickets from time to time. Why should the government only allow the wealthy to have cars?

It’s thinking like this that gave way to the ridiculous EV lanes. Let the wealthy cruise through traffic to their high paying job in their 100k Tesla. Meanwhile the person in the old fuel inefficient beater has to idle in traffic, burning fuel, as they worry about being late to their second job and get fired.

Maybe we should next ban factory farming so only the wealthy can eat meat.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#185

Post by SamReidHughes »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #163
SamReidHughes wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really corporate welfare, because delivery companies are in competition and the cost savings get passed on to the consumer. It's a subsidy.

People keep repeating "savings get passed to the consumer" truism, but what is your evidence? DHL posts healthy profits, so I allege we are just padding their bottom line.

If that were false, DHL would raise prices and get even more profits.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#186

Post by paulmd »

Udik wrote: post #95

A few days ago, in the context of first drone delivery by Google, I asked why don't we build infrastructure (pipes + automatic pods going through them) to deliver grocery-sized packages. Sounds like a literal pipe dream, but I'm not convinced the economics wouldn't work. Deliveries could take a matter of minutes and the network could be expanded at will, starting with a few neighborhood delivery spots. At a price of…

It's been done... operated 1897 to 1953, replaced by auto delivery.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumatic_tube_mail_in_New_Yor...

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#187

Post by lucb1e »

crazygringo wrote: post #40

The problem isn't trucks -- obviously, it's hugely more efficient for a single truck+driver to deliver 100's of packages in a single day than for 100's of individual people to spend an hour each going to/from a store, and even worse for congestion if even more than a few are taking individual vehicles. The problem is parking. And the solution is obvious: multiple truck-length parking spaces along each and every block…

> it's hugely more efficient for a single truck+driver to deliver 100's of packages in a single day than for 100's of individual people to spend an hour each going to/from a store

Not sure if by "efficient" you also mean it's better for the environment, but I did hear from some researcher that deliveries are ecologically much worse than going to the store. The podcast/"lecture"[1] is in Flemish (and audio/video isn't very accessible), so I'll translate the main reasons:

- Many disparate products moved to many individual homes (many to many makes for a lot of 'movements', fragmentation)

- 15-20% of people is not home during a delivery attempt (useless impact)

- Returns are equally bad (people order 8 pairs of shoes knowing they'll send 7 back)

- Different delivery companies cause even more fragmentation (driving to the same home)

Of course, you might just have meant efficiency of trucks as opposed to 2-ton cars occupied by single persons (assuming most people in NYC would do their shopping by car -- as a European, I can't imagine doing that in large cities' centres, but I do hear the USA is very car-oriented so I don't know how it is in NYC).

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRqKEK_xJvc

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#188

Post by tuberelay »

I am founding a startup looking to use modern tunneling tech like horizontal directional drilling and pipe-jacking to build networks of tunnels under major cities to allow high speed "just in time" deliveries using small autonomous vehicles.

These would deliver packages, groceries and takeaway meals.

Looking for cofounders/enthusiasts - see:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19131135

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#189

Post by autokad »

crazygringo wrote: post #40

The problem isn't trucks -- obviously, it's hugely more efficient for a single truck+driver to deliver 100's of packages in a single day than for 100's of individual people to spend an hour each going to/from a store, and even worse for congestion if even more than a few are taking individual vehicles. The problem is parking. And the solution is obvious: multiple truck-length parking spaces along each and every block…

honestly, I think the article was secretly trying to drum up hate for big tech like Amazon.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#190

Post by tzs »

hos234 wrote: post #10

So basically the Russians can order staples to a few hundred carefully chosen locations and brings Cities to a standstill. No ICBMs necessary. Good to know.

Something like that has been done before, although it wasn't the Russians. It was a guy winning a bet [1].

> On 27 November, at five o'clock in the morning, a sweep arrived to sweep the chimneys of Mrs Tottenham's house. The maid who answered the door informed him that no sweep had been requested, and that his services were not required. A few moments later another sweep presented himself, then another, and another; twelve in all. After the last of the sweeps had been sent away, a fleet of carts carrying large deliveries of coal began to arrive, followed by a series of cakemakers delivering large wedding cakes, then doctors, lawyers, vicars and priests summoned to minister to someone in the house they had been told was dying. Fishmongers, shoemakers, and over a dozen pianos were among the next to appear, along with "six stout men bearing an organ". Dignitaries, including the Governor of the Bank of England, the Duke of York, the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Lord Mayor of London also arrived. The narrow streets soon became severely congested with tradesmen and onlookers. Deliveries and visits continued until the early evening, bringing a large part of London to a standstill.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berners_Street_hoax

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