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System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

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Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#181

Post by sandov »

tpearson-raptor wrote: post #172
kop316 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't mind me asking, do you use a laptop for work/personally? And if you do, what do you use? I've been looking for one and I have the same concerns you do, and right now the only thing I realistically see if I want completely open is a thinkpad x200/t400 flashed with libreboot.

I've actually given up on using laptops for now. I still have an old x201 and t400 but they don't get out much due to the Intel silicon vulnerabilities. Nothing I do with secure data hard-requires that level of portability, and for insecure (tracked, DRMed, closed + signed firmware) mobile use a Lineage smartphone is good enough for what I do. A laptop with closed / signed firmware simply doesn't gain me anything wor…

What OS do you run on the Blackbird?

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#182

Post by madez »

akeck wrote: post #27
awinter-py wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wait what's the difference? driver runs in kernel, firmware runs in card?

I think it is, or includes, the baseband firmware for the actual wifi radio. I believe, but I'm not 100% sure, that the FCC has specific restrictions on how baseband radio firmware gets distributed.

You, and everyone else for that matter, can go and buy a software defined radio (SDR) and play with a radio to your hearts liking. If there is a restriction on redistribution of open down to the radio firmware WiFi devices, then it's dumb. If there is none, please don't spread incorrect speculation that there is.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#183

Post by tpearson-raptor »

sandov wrote: post #181
tpearson-raptor wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've actually given up on using laptops for now. I still have an old x201 and t400 but they don't get out much due to the Intel silicon vulnerabilities. Nothing I do with secure data hard-requires that level of portability, and for insecure (tracked, DRMed, closed + signed firmware) mobile use a Lineage smartphone is good enough for what I do. A laptop with closed / signed firmware simply doesn't gain me anything wor…

What OS do you run on the Blackbird?

I run Debian Buster.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#184

Post by lonelappde »

Ardon wrote: post #31
rsync wrote: post #16

I would love to buy an open, linux-based laptop to replace my aging 11" MBA but these are huge laptops - the smallest has a 14" screen. Should I be looking at the Pinebook 11" ?

There’s the pinebook pro going out now. It’s not going to blow you away with its speed, but it’s much better than the OG pinebook

Pinebook pro is 14" following the apple model of "more power must have a bigger screen".

But it's a pretty low end system intended for experimentation. The store page warns you not to buy it if you are picky about hardware quality.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#185

Post by madez »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #173
snagglegaggle wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any "open" 802.11ac chipsets? A quick search didn't find any.

No, closest thing is the mediatek chip-sets that at least dont enforce wifi parameters via firmware (fullmac vs softmac).

Things are getting worse, not better, on many fronts when it comes to user freedom and control over their devices. Apparently many responsible engineers in this area lack the ethical consideration of their work. The more I see this, the more I worry about bridges, airplanes, and every other piece of technology that is developed by engineers that may or may not have ethical principles.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#186

Post by tpearson-raptor »

lonelappde wrote: post #180
tpearson-raptor wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh? Zero blobs, so no ME or PSP? No FSP or AGESA? No EC firmware or integrated GPU firmware? Sorry, I call BS on that unless it was a long time ago, as in Core 2 Duo era.

You seem to know and care a lot about this, but your writing style is really off-putting to less informed users. Consider adjusting your approach to educating people about how open source low level software works and doesn't work.

I was being snarky in this particular post. Normally I don't do that, but I kinda got tired of saying the same thing over and over and tried something new. Didn't mean to offend, only challenge.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#187

Post by dorfsmay »

busterarm wrote: post #163
ggreer wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an x210. The main reasons I bought it were the keyboard and the screen (2880x1920, which is a 3:2 aspect ratio). If you want a small laptop with 32GB of RAM, the X390 and L390 seem like decent options.

I have an x270 that I consider to be the best road-warrior laptop they ever made. I was sad when they got rid of the dual battery in the x280.

I needed to upgrade my x220. The newer X series is almost as big as the T series, and is really limited in terms of memory. I ended up getting a T480 which is nice at home, but too big on the road.

I looked really hard at System76, but I need a trackpoint. I also looked at the x210, and at the time I thought that was too much work, I'm starting to think it might be worth it.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#188

Post by dorfsmay »

ggreer wrote: post #160
dorfsmay wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you familiar with the ThinkPad x210? Have you thought of addressing the market of people wanting a small (12 to 13 inch), robuste, laptops with trackpoint and no arbitrary memory limitation? Lenovo has abandoned that market, and there's enough demand for people to create and sell kits for it. Could System 76 fill that gap?

I have an x210. The main reasons I bought it were the keyboard and the screen (2880x1920, which is a 3:2 aspect ratio). If you want a small laptop with 32GB of RAM, the X390 and L390 seem like decent options.

When I looked at it (a fees months ago), 16 GB soldered memory was the only option. Also, no ethernet port.

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#189

Post by tpearson-raptor »

floatboth wrote: post #125
pgeorgi wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

coreboot on modern Intel requires (some amount of) ME firmware (without which the x86 core wouldn't even turn on) + some parts of the Intel FSP binaries. coreboot on modern AMD requires (some amount of) PSP firmware (without which the x86 core wouldn't even turn on) + some parts of AGESA which were most recently shipped as "BinaryPI". The situation is comparable, just that Intel has ~7 years of dealing with coreboot…

> requires some care when selecting your gear Doesn't that mostly boil down to "avoid anything newer than Ivy Bridge/Bulldozer"? > high performance memory […] controller function blocks There are DDR4 controllers with FOSS training code out there :) https://github.com/MarvellEmbeddedProcessors/mv-ddr-marvell/...

Here's POWER's training code for DDR4:

https://git.raptorcs.com/git/talos-hostboot/tree/src/import/...

pgeorgi has a valid point in that if you go for the cheapest off the shelf building block type DDR4 solution for your silicon design (won't name names here, but it's a widely known vendor in the silicon block space), those controllers come with mandated binary-only firmware. IBM (and apparently Marvell?) both didn't use that cheap off the shelf solution and also decided to release their training code. Kudos to both companies for bucking the trend here!

Re: System76 Will Ship Linux Laptops With Coreboot-Based Open-Source Firmware

#190

Post by acomjean »

albertzeyer wrote: post #56

Recently there was a discussion about Huawei MateBook X Pro, which also seems to be a great Linux notebook: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21170765 In that discussion, several other good Linux notebooks were also discussed, including System 76. But it was reported there that the quality is quite bad: > but the quality is reportedly bad (flaky hardware, too-fast power drain, reflash bios to toggle discrete graph…

I’ve had my oryx pro for a year now with no problems. I’m not supper easy on hardware. It’s build quality is decent ( my work machine is a 13 in Mac book pro, which is better built, but the oryx isn’t bad.). It even able to run the unreal engine dev kit.
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