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8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

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Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never hung around /v/ during those years, but my guess is it there was no censorship, it was just paranoia as usual. If they really cared so much about it, they could post on /b/.

I was there and not only did the censorship was unexpected and uncalled for, it happened on /r/games at the same time also, which was very uncanny.

Not only that, the catalyst was the most innocuous GamerGate take of the entire fiasco, which was TotalBiscuit's twitlonger about it, where he categorically condemned harassment, and rather used all the hubbub to talk about actual issues in gaming journalism. Nuking that entire thread might've been one of the biggest blunder in reddit history, alongside the Boston bomber fiasco.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#182
post #74
post #8

There was a time that it was difficult for me to understand how it was possible that governments in the middle east were supporting domestic terrorism. It was difficult to imagine how normal people were supporting the killing of fellow citizens. Now, that I see this same trend unravel in the USA it becomes easier to understand. I have seen for the past decades the shifting of what "conservative" means. Extremists wer…

To add to the possible causes/reasons that people have already replied with, I'd suggest that in countries with mandatory voting, there is a natural tension that keeps parties from straying too far from the centre (i.e. where most of the citizenry sit). In countries with optional voting regimes, those that feel disenfranchised or cynical or apathetic don't vote, while those with extremist views are probably less incl…

As someone that lives in Australia but comes from a similar country with optional voting (NZ), Australia's mandatory voting regime seems very much like choosing a government by chance - if voters don't know enough to vote without it being compulsory, they don't suddenly know any more by making them vote, and forcing a bunch of low information voters to go and vote anyway doesn't seem like it's going to get a good outcome. NZ's turnout is not all that much below AU without compulsory voting (admittedly, we did have John Key for what felt like forever, so it's not like we've got great form either).

While I'm moaning about the electoral system, the lack of a representative system (winner takes all in each electorate, leading to an enormous focus on battleground electorates while the safe seats are largely ignored) is also hugely problematic.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#183
post #70

4chan and 8chan are cancers upon the internet. The sites themselves and their community members spew toxicity, hate, cynicism, and revulsion wherever they turn up. They revel in trolling, harassment, and offense for the sake of offense. This, as recent events demonstrate, often extends further into deep-seated hatred and racism. I don't know if it's an intrinsic side effect of the 100% anonymous culture or just just…

Not your Internet, not your community and not your problem.

If you say school shootings are your problem, well... Talk to your neighbors, talk to your friends, talk to your family, talk to your children. School shootings are an IRL local community problem.

The reason the chans turn so cancerous, is that these people's environments are extremely cancerous to them. To fight this, they concentrate where there's the most (ideo)logical cancer, so they can build mental resistance, learn to recognize the patterns and eventually solve them. I'm not saying they plan this out consciously, but that's how it works out. Best I can tell these people would love to chop wood all days if they'd then be left alone with access to a computer in their free time.

To give you an example of what I mean by a "carcinogenic environment" - the "you must go to university before working"-meme. That piece of shit took multiple years out of my life. That's a much more problematic meme than the ones that are shared on 4chan.

Chan users are in a deadlock situation where their environment pushes more and more unwanted information on them. They are basically told to get cancer and die by their IRL communities - which, in part, is why they gravitate towards anti-Semitism, the single most effective means of closing down the heart. It's not a pleasant experience but it's a way to survive.

Then the literal IDF comes around to shill their communities. Oh, that's nice! That surely won't increase anti-Semitism! Then the FBI, CIA, KGB pile on. "Investigate Russia! We're totally not the CIA!". "Pls post cheese pizza, I'm not FBI I promise sempai". "US govt. corrupt Jewish snakepit! You will die by the sandnigger and the blistering faggot! xo - putin".

Now the government is regularly turning up to dump its toxic baggage on the chans. Thanks!

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So, to clear something up, anti-Semitism is totally predictable and caused by Jews: https://laitman.com/2019/08/what-is-the-root-of-all-arab-and...

Good news everyone! Jews are not victims, they have responsibilities and they just have to act on it.

You can call Laitman a cult leader or a monk farmer or whatever, but he is studied, he knows his Torah, his Kabbalah and his Talmud, and he is correct. The children of Israel can never truly be victims of anyone but themselves. Talmud 101.

Of course, the Talmud also says "don't share this with the gentiles"; well, the tech world is in my heart and Hacker News is a Jewy bunch, so it seems I won't even have to do any Teshuvah for sharing this here. So: can the anti-anti-Semitism meme die already?

Chan users know that anti-Semitism is "correct" instinctively. It's hard to avoid when you have the experiential knowledge, but of course it's still possible to mislabel it, e.g. as a different category of "correct", such as "all Jews must die" - no, Jews need to love their neighbor as themselves spiritually as well as physically, and not have the hubris to think that what they think does not matter as long as they do Torah and Mitzvot on a surface level.

I'm saying this based on Hebrew, Torah and Kabbalah study. Please weight your words if you choose to respond.

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Posters like parent are framed as just another uninspired Zionist shill; it's not incorrect. Parent contains absolutely zero useful information or empathy for chan users. It's a shallow attempt to demoralize the community by painting a bleak future for it, or to dehumanize them so more people from the tech-o-sphere will start shilling there.

You can't speak truthfully with someone who you consider to be the embodiment of a disease. "Treat thy neighbor as thyself" already.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#184

...how have things gotten objectively worse for young men?

If you think the male suicide rate and mass shootings have anything to do with some kind of "objectively worse" metric you're not thinking about this in the right way...

Instead of telling folks that they’re wrong, how about you explain why.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#185
Saying that "XYZ media outlet is a normal part of mass shoothing now" is a hypocrisy, because 1. the real problem you should be focusing on is why "Mass shootings are a normal part of the society now", 2. hate can and will be "farmed" in the next outlet, if we ban one.

You could go as far as outlawing anonymous internet access (require identity in all online actions), but people with these intentions would still find a way to congregate and develop/use a specific language to evade detection and control.

We really need to start looking hard at what causes pressure build-ups in our society and start working on alleviation of these, because while the side effects of anti-depression medication may act as the last-mile enabler in these special cases, it's not the core problem and as such will deflect our attention from solving the core problem/problems. (I'm not touching the gun-control issue. E.g. in London or Japan, they will kill you with a knife. Tomorrow it may be a chemical weapon. Etc.)

In my experience the biggest problem is paradoxically the lack of communication from the side of the government to the side of the people. Many controversial programs can be explained in a common language so that an information vacuums aren't created and then filled by "conspiracy theorists". E.g. clearly explain the logic behind immigration policies (democrats), explain the logic behind fiscal policies (the FED, the ECB), the logic behind taxation rates, and so on.

I'm not saying that governments are perfect or that there is zero truth in some conspiracy theories, but I see the lack of information flow be the biggest issue because it causes people's disbelief in their governments' actions and that breeds all sorts of problems.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#186
post #145

The theory seems to be that white supremacists just naturally wish to commit violent hate crimes and that white supremacists use 8chan to indoctrinate more followers. What if it turns out that white supremacists primary wish is to have their arguments heard by society, but society has instead cast them out and refuses to let them post elsewhere so they can only post on 8chan, and that some of them, mentally unstable,…

Germany tried that in the 1930s. The de-platforming required later was historic.

I agree! Anyone who talks about “White Privelege” as if they are a uniform group below contempt is just as wrong as Nazis of old railing about “Jewish Conspiracy!” We should not be giving these radical racists a platform! These evil people want to disarm the populace, suppress dissenting speech, and engage in social engineering! We must stop them!

See how that works?

You want to know how to turn someone? Show love, not hate. Daryl Davis has shown just how well that works.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#188
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's their parents' home, no? The US middle class is shrinking. And it's always dangerous to have lots of young men with no prospects. With no future worth living into. But seriously, mass shootings are just a sideshow. It's the political implications that are truly frightening.

>That's their parents' home, no? Are there a lot of parents that won't allow their kin to live with them when the only other option is homelessness?

yes

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#189
post #166

...how have things gotten objectively worse for young men?

In many cases I don't think social media helps young men OR women at all. To summarise a discussion I had with a friend who has teenager kids recently - when we were growing up we had magazines telling us what was 'cool'. Music, movies, clothes. They appeared once a week or month. Television and film 'cool' was behind real life. The Daily Mail was a paper your parents read - that as odious as it may have been - didn'…

Couple it with the exaggerated standards for dating, which leads to lonely frustrated/depressed people.

And for some reason it's even harder to make friends today. (Probably because people drift away from each other faster. Better global mobility, you can have a job anywhere, you can study anywhere, your work might include a lots of travel. You switch jobs faster than people used to. There are a lot more things to do even on a budget, so individual differences get an emphasis, but then those things to do don't provide with new friends. You can do yoga, hiking, biking, sailing, paragliding, and whatever for a few months then switch to the next, the years go by, and you haven't formed a lasting connection. Plus add the whole experience industry - you don't have to do the hiking with the local enthusiasts, you can simply pick a guided/organized event every week, and meet new people every week. And there are even more things to do online - which are again not the typical friends making venue.)

Oh, and don't forget those beautiful echo chambers on the Internet. That helps to radicalize people. (Just go to a gun enthusiast site after any/each shooting and look at the comments. Then look at an anti-gun whatever site, maybe HufPo?)

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#190
post #63

> Personal Reasons and Thoughts: My whole life I have been preparing for a future that currently doesn't exist. The job of my dreams will likely be automated. (...) It's only mentioned in passing but this may be the most relevant part for HN to discuss.

Migration, automation, and the meaning of life in the new western world. Someone should write a book for white males, sadly we keep leaving this discussion to neonazis and white supremacists online instead of having it ourselves in the public realm...

Jordan Peterson comes to mind. But even he gets labeled as an """alt-right""" even though he is super moderate when you actually listen to him.
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