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Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

derstandard.at

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Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#181

Post by ameister14 »

gph wrote: post #174
snaky wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are very adaptable and will consider all that things new normal. XIX century Americans would consider an income tax in a peacetime grossly inappropriate, creepy and a violation of their dignity after all.

And the more or less permanent state of war we find ourselves in could also be considered a new normal we've adapted to that XIX century Americans would find creepy and grossly inappropriate.

No, the US was at war for essentially the entirety of the 19th century.

Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#182

Post by coldtea »

ameister14 wrote: post #177
coldtea wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This will just put foreign platforms, who will ignore the law, into an advantageous position compared to local platforms. Users might switch to foreign platforms that don't require identification. Doesn't really matter, as those things move the Overton window. Tomorrow, when the US, China, and EU adopt similar laws, there wont be any "foreign services" to use.

Yeah, the US will never adopt a law like that. Anonymity is extremely protected by the Supreme Court, because the founders wrote and distributed pamphlets anonymously in support of the Revolution.

>Anonymity is extremely protected by the Supreme Court

And yet the US has all kinds of surveillance apparatus to de-anonymize internet users...

Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#183

Post by ameister14 »

coldtea wrote: post #182
ameister14 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the US will never adopt a law like that. Anonymity is extremely protected by the Supreme Court, because the founders wrote and distributed pamphlets anonymously in support of the Revolution.

> Anonymity is extremely protected by the Supreme Court And yet the US has all kinds of surveillance apparatus to de-anonymize internet users...

Not American internet users, for the most part. Note that those are at least justified by being connected to foreign actors, and that some of those surveillance apparatus are illegal.

Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#184

Post by dsfyu404ed »

coldtea wrote: post #182
ameister14 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the US will never adopt a law like that. Anonymity is extremely protected by the Supreme Court, because the founders wrote and distributed pamphlets anonymously in support of the Revolution.

> Anonymity is extremely protected by the Supreme Court And yet the US has all kinds of surveillance apparatus to de-anonymize internet users...

And if that apparatus was used to prosecute US citizens for non-major crimes with any frequency it would come under scrutiny very quickly and you'd have politicians jockeying to legislate it out of existence and take credit.

Even if you take the parallel construction angle, no politician except maybe a dinosaur that is super-secure in their position (on the federal level that would be people like Pelosi, Fienstien, etc.) is going to tolerate that because if the other side can prove you knew then you're not going to have a job after the next election.

Obviously we need to remain vigilant but there are existing feedback mechanisms that generally prevent wide spread abuse.

Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#185

Post by pault »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #139
rasz wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is homeless situation in Austria? Thats how you get clean untraceable pre registered cards.

what you suggest is a really good technique which has the additional benefit of inheriting the social graph of whoever owned the phone before. it's easy to get them from immigrants in one of the mom+pop shops offering international "calling-home" services.

That sounds interesting. Can you elaborate for someone that is opsec-naive?

Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#186

Post by dsfyu404ed »

coding123 wrote: post #171
DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anybody got an ideas, on what we are supposed to do when that happens only few things you can do (in that order depending on how bad it escalates), 0) start to learn about prepping and live a more unplugged live 1) flee and take refuge in a place that others call "backward" 2) take up arms and defend yourself #2 will get you labeled a terrorist (though so was Count Stauffenberg)

Well and more specifically in places like Colorado that would be enough to take away your guns.

Who's gonna take them? Remember that couple in Houston that put the hurt on a swat team. It doesn't take many events like that to really dampen the enthusiasm for kicking down doors (especially when you're doing it to simply confiscate property). The cops are subject to the same risk calculations as any other home invaders.

Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#187

Post by 50656E6973 »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #184
coldtea wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anonymity is extremely protected by the Supreme Court And yet the US has all kinds of surveillance apparatus to de-anonymize internet users...

And if that apparatus was used to prosecute US citizens for non-major crimes with any frequency it would come under scrutiny very quickly and you'd have politicians jockeying to legislate it out of existence and take credit. Even if you take the parallel construction angle, no politician except maybe a dinosaur that is super-secure in their position (on the federal level that would be people like Pelosi, Fienstien, e…

Isn't the advantage of parallel construction that it's extremely difficult, often impossible to detect and thus scrutinize?

Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#188

Post by dsfyu404ed »

gowld wrote: post #178
coding123 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well and more specifically in places like Colorado that would be enough to take away your guns.

ATF is a federal agency. No state is protected against military action against gun holders.

Due to a sad trilogy of events at the end of last century (specifically Episode 2: Texas BBQ) the ATF of this century mostly conducts stings and information based enforcement (i.e. nabbing people for buying Glock switches online). Were they to go back to kicking down doors of people who are generally considered normal patriotic Americans they would A) be more likely to get shot back at than any other agency (much easier to justify and mentally prepare yourself to shoot back at career snake steppers than your local PD) and B) have some really, really bad optics to contend with.

If you're worried about someone taking your guns be worried about the state police.

Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#189

Post by fit2rule »

Today I was driving around beautiful spring-time Vienna, and I happened to stop at a traffic light as Chancellor Kurz, sitting in the passenger seat of some 2019 rich-car convertible, also happened to stop in the lane next to me.

He gave me such an evil glare, it was astonishing. So I glared back at him.

In real life, I found him to be as loathsome a creature as in media. Perhaps, fatter than I thought he was.

I hope I can continue to report such things on the Internet in the future.

Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#190

Post by dsfyu404ed »

50656E6973 wrote: post #187
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if that apparatus was used to prosecute US citizens for non-major crimes with any frequency it would come under scrutiny very quickly and you'd have politicians jockeying to legislate it out of existence and take credit. Even if you take the parallel construction angle, no politician except maybe a dinosaur that is super-secure in their position (on the federal level that would be people like Pelosi, Fienstien, e…

Isn't the advantage of parallel construction that it's extremely difficult, often impossible to detect and thus scrutinize?

To do parallel construction at scale you'd need to get the information into the hands of law enforcement in a plausibly deniable way. Doing that at scale would either have a predictable pattern (if every agency starts getting "anonymous tips" then questions are going to start getting asked) or would need to involve many people in order to plant the information in a more varied manner. Involving the recipient agencies themselves is not going to happen because two people can only keep a secret if one of them is dead so a cool million is going to be a non-starter.
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