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Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

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Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#171

Post by coding123 »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #169
kdme wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a scary idea. I want to say that its unlikely to happen but with the political climate right not... Anybody got an ideas, on what we are supposed to do when that happens

> Anybody got an ideas, on what we are supposed to do when that happens only few things you can do (in that order depending on how bad it escalates), 0) start to learn about prepping and live a more unplugged live 1) flee and take refuge in a place that others call "backward" 2) take up arms and defend yourself #2 will get you labeled a terrorist (though so was Count Stauffenberg)

Well and more specifically in places like Colorado that would be enough to take away your guns.

Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#172

Post by xnyan »

masswerk wrote: post #118
lazyjones wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it maybe worth stating that "left-leaning" is what was considered center just a few years ago. Please don't attempt to change the meaning of my post with your own interpretation. When I write "left-leaning", I mean exactly that.

Where are there any "left-leaning" public posts of notice in Austria? This isn't the 1970s anymore, when there were actual Maoists… "Left-leaning" is now somewhat of a contested concept and there is no common consent on its meaning – which is what I was trying to point out.

All political terms and discriptors are in constant flux. That is normal. Generally speaking when you refer to left-leaning in a specific country, you mean the leftests of your contemporary time. I’m not sure what Austro-Maoists in the 1970s have to do with today’s leftists in Austria

Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#173

Post by Faark »

arrozconcosas wrote: post #150
lazyjones wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This legislation is not about "aggressive behaviour", it's about criminal conduct. While I can't comment professionally on the validity / reproducibility of this research (looks bogus to me, they only examined comments on an online petition platform, not FB and news sites where all the crazy people are[1]), anyone who'd claim that criminals don't prefer to be anonymous or that perceived anonymity has a negative effec…

Putting 2 innocent people through systems designed to assume they are guilty is worse than 1 guilty person being able to be anonymous. Look at what the TSA has done. They’ve wasted so much time and created a massive invasion of physical privacy (i.e. someone touching your private parts in public) and not only did they never catch anything, they fail 90% of penetration tests. There is some positive intent here but in…

I see two options going forward:

- Filters, Article 13 style. Youtube, Facebook and Co have to ensure you can only post legal content

- Accountability. A justice system is able to drag you into a court when you've done something illegal.

We tried safe harbor and it was a nice compromise, but youtube added ContentId for a reason and it also certainly doesn't seem to help against hate speech. I prefer we keep judges assessing what is allowed and what isn't, instead of shifting this burden onto companies. If that requires Know Your Customer laws, then this seems like an acceptable trade off to me.

Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#174

Post by gph »

snaky wrote: post #168
kdme wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a scary idea. I want to say that its unlikely to happen but with the political climate right not... Anybody got an ideas, on what we are supposed to do when that happens

People are very adaptable and will consider all that things new normal. XIX century Americans would consider an income tax in a peacetime grossly inappropriate, creepy and a violation of their dignity after all.

And the more or less permanent state of war we find ourselves in could also be considered a new normal we've adapted to that XIX century Americans would find creepy and grossly inappropriate.

Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#175

Post by moate »

snaky wrote: post #168
kdme wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a scary idea. I want to say that its unlikely to happen but with the political climate right not... Anybody got an ideas, on what we are supposed to do when that happens

People are very adaptable and will consider all that things new normal. XIX century Americans would consider an income tax in a peacetime grossly inappropriate, creepy and a violation of their dignity after all.

As would 19th century Americans

Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#176

Post by chmod775 »

lazyjones wrote: post #78
chmod775 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a practice in Germany where people traded registered pre-paid SIM cards openly on a website created for that purpose - which was perfectly legal[1]. However they stopped when a court shot down the surveillance law that made people concerned in the first place[2]. If Austrians are even half as privacy-conscious as Germans, expect much of the same happening. 1: https://datenschmutz.net/anonym-kommunizieren-si…

> If Austrians are even half as privacy-conscious as Germans, expect much of the same happening. Possibly among groups of people who regularly break the law. I can't see a normal person willingly accepting this sort of risk (e.g. being persecuted for child pornography someone else downloaded) for no good reason. Also, the authorities will find you anyway if you've ever used a SIM card with your real name in the same…

> I can't see a normal person willingly accepting this sort of risk

A lot of Germans did in fact do it. So... there. Even my father considered doing it, being ever suspicious of the handheld tracking device that is the smartphone we forced on him.

There's not much police will (or can) do once it's established that you traded SIM-cards. It's actually discussed in the first article I linked.

There's also a good chance you weren't even remotely physically close to the phone/sim when the crime was committed.

Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#177

Post by ameister14 »

coldtea wrote: post #138
codedokode wrote: post #96

It is surprising. Even here, in Russia, we don't have such laws working yet. And I wonder, what Austrian authorities are going to do with foreign platforms like Telegram, which are unlikely to comply? Russian government has been trying to block Telegram using DPI for a year and didn't succeed. What about Twitter? Reddit? > In addition, web platforms would be required to appoint a liaison in Austria who would be respo…

> This will just put foreign platforms, who will ignore the law, into an advantageous position compared to local platforms. Users might switch to foreign platforms that don't require identification. Doesn't really matter, as those things move the Overton window. Tomorrow, when the US, China, and EU adopt similar laws, there wont be any "foreign services" to use.

Yeah, the US will never adopt a law like that. Anonymity is extremely protected by the Supreme Court, because the founders wrote and distributed pamphlets anonymously in support of the Revolution.

Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#178

Post by gowld »

coding123 wrote: post #171
DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anybody got an ideas, on what we are supposed to do when that happens only few things you can do (in that order depending on how bad it escalates), 0) start to learn about prepping and live a more unplugged live 1) flee and take refuge in a place that others call "backward" 2) take up arms and defend yourself #2 will get you labeled a terrorist (though so was Count Stauffenberg)

Well and more specifically in places like Colorado that would be enough to take away your guns.

ATF is a federal agency. No state is protected against military action against gun holders.

Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#179

Post by toyg »

Havoc wrote: post #22
toyg wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cayman Islands is a British Overseas Territory. Technically, the installed Governor could shut anything down at his wish. In practice it’s unlikely to happen, because (like with many British constitutional matters...) both the locals and the UK have an interest into maintaining a degree of ambiguity in current arrangements. This said, when the UK government is fully convinced that Caymans “should jump”, they eventual…

>both the locals and the UK have an interest into maintaining a degree of ambiguity in current arrangements. Interesting take on overseas territories. Fuzzy sure, but it never occurred to me that it's intentional

- provides plausible deniability for unpopular or suspicious measures at both ends

- keeps open the option of direct subsidies and favourable treatment for Cayman. I believe most BOTs are not financially self-sufficient, including Caymans.

- keeps open the option of UK re-taking direct control in some circumstances (military requirements, oil discoveries etc).

- maintains substantial independence in practice.

For small territories, BOT arrangements provide the best of both worlds, at the low low price of occasionally bowing to UK authorities.

Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#180

Post by liotier »

snazz wrote: post #165
kdme wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a scary idea. I want to say that its unlikely to happen but with the political climate right not... Anybody got an ideas, on what we are supposed to do when that happens

Start a “counterculture network” of onion-routed hidden services (not necessarily Tor, but something akin). Some element of steganography would likely be required to prevent government-controlled ISPs from simply dropping encrypted traffic, most likely. It would be hard and would likely attract only technically-minded individuals to use.

> It would be hard and would likely attract only technically-minded individuals

... and police forces: a nice feature of leaving a few gaps that motivated users can use is that the police can focus its limited resources on the those interesting targets.

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