European Parliament approves copyright reform • Hacker News Board

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#181

Post by paganel » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 1:35 PM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #173

paganel wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've also said it in the other thread about this, Macron is basically a crook, he has just sent the military to guard against some of France's citizens street protests [1], that's not at all democratic. Unfortunately, with the Brexit situation, with Angela Merkel who's on her way out and with Italy which is partly run by a comedian's party France has gained an unrivaled influence over EU affairs and in one way or ano…

You're right about his influence in the EU and on the directive. However he's completely in his right to have the army against disorderly protests that cause damage (including fire to historical buildings the last time).

Armies are supposed to fight against foreign troops, at worst, they are supposed to take sides in the event of a civil war, in no way are they supposed to be sent against their own citizenry. At least not in a democratic country.

What's worst is that the crooks that run things around my part of the continent (I live in Eastern Europe) have given Macron's recent actions as an example, as in: "if France's rulers are happy to tear-gas their own citizenry why are we blamed for doing the same thing"?

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#182

Post by ralala » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 1:35 PM UTC

Funes- wrote: post #76

This will be an unpopular perspective on the matter, so you have been warned: Article 13 only affects for-profit platforms that host and share copyrighted material. These platforms are run by big corporations that turn a huge profit by way of selling your personal data, violating your privacy, and having a persuasive (addictive) design in order to glue you to the screen so they can maximize their ad revenue, dismissi…

This also affects small online communities, who pay for their servers by running a few ads. There are a lot of these platforms.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#183

Post by rcxdude » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 1:35 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #42

To what degree has Britain's waning influence contributed to this? London was historically Europe's most competent commercially-minded city. I'm hopeful to see a counterbalance emerge in Frankfurt or Paris, but the writing on the wall indicates that's unlikely.

The UK in general will support such increases in copyright power. The government for the most part is not tech-savvy enough to understand the objections to article 13.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#184

Post by xienze » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 1:35 PM UTC

isostatic wrote: post #73

DarkWiiPlayer wrote: post #16

Am I the only one who kinda feels like I'm not living in a democratic system anymore? Not saying this is the first such thing that happens, but it's probably the one that will make me stop using the word to refer to the society I live in.

The EU Parliament, who we vote for every 5 years (and have elections coming up), vote for a law. You don't like said law, therefore it's undemocratic? The way the parliament is elected is quite fair - it gives a little more power to people in smaller countries, but that's not unusual (UK westminster constituencies vary from 22k to 120k. U.S. congress areas are more even, ranging from 500k to 1 million). There's an ar…

> The EU Parliament, who we vote for every 5 years (and have elections coming up), vote for a law. You don't like said law, therefore it's undemocratic?

Did any parliament members run on this issue? If so, how many? The point I'm getting at is, to what extent did "the people" really have a say in this issue?

Politicians are elected and some time down the road laws are proposed without much, if any, input from the people. It's not really possible to know ahead of time what laws will be proposed years in advance and how your representative will actually vote on them when the time comes. That's my main gripe with the whole "well you should've voted for a better representative!" argument. Yeah you can vote them out after the fact, but ahead of time the best you can do is vote for someone who represents your district's interests in the most general sense. It's really a crapshoot as to what your representative is going to do once they're sat in front of some dense, hard-to-understand legislation cooked up by a nameless, faceless corporate-political committee.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#185

Post by Juliate » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 1:37 PM UTC

paganel wrote: post #138

DarkWiiPlayer wrote: post #16

Am I the only one who kinda feels like I'm not living in a democratic system anymore? Not saying this is the first such thing that happens, but it's probably the one that will make me stop using the word to refer to the society I live in.

I've also said it in the other thread about this, Macron is basically a crook, he has just sent the military to guard against some of France's citizens street protests [1], that's not at all democratic. Unfortunately, with the Brexit situation, with Angela Merkel who's on her way out and with Italy which is partly run by a comedian's party France has gained an unrivaled influence over EU affairs and in one way or ano…

There's a bit of nuance to bring here.

Moving militaries to replace police on some institutions' security is and was stupid, as it's not their core mission. But calling "citizens street protests" the guerilla-like behaviours that triggered this clumsy response from the government is a bit naive and misleading as well.

If you study France's Fifth Republic rules (Constitution), you'll see the president has some discretionary power that are not democratic, in order to be able to take on decisions to safeguard the republic - that's a direct heritage of De Gaulle, that saw that in 1940, the president had not the power, and could not decide to make the army react fast enough to counter German invasion.

So, nothing real new so far.

This initiative was supported by Macron, as it was by many others. Nothing new either that France (and French cultural crowd) has always been historically in favour of this kind of copyright move, or even stronger ones.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#186

Post by fock » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 1:37 PM UTC

hektorrr wrote: post #82

This is also huge blow in the artist community, because if they will have no license or contract with big media entities their work will not be shared. And I hope Google, MS and Wiki will stick together in blocking any content from entities requiring any sort of pay. Of course this would not solve all issues featured with these reforms. Smallest are always loosing when it comes to laws like that.

You can still share on your personal site (even your commercial one, as you won't violate copyright I guess and so can't be sued effectively (if local legislation would get their shit together even not in the typical extortion form))... Random, unaccounted internet fame by the magic of some proprietary algorithm might be harder too achieve though, but I see no censorship in this (and indeed today, censorship is possible with this algorithms).

I'm not sure, how the blocking you propose should work (your comment shows as much ignorance as most MEPs speaking for the reform do), as the directive basically enables any rightholder to enforce claims against the platform as soon as they publish any copyright violating material. The whole point is that rightholders should not have to rely on takedown notices anymore, which imho is not necessarily bad – this does also not in any way stand of overdue policy which limits the outrageous fees on copyright violations (for example, why not sign bills which make you pay the (standard) license fee+30% if you're violating copyright, when you are using the protected works in your own work (for blatant theft, like reuploading a music video, fines could still be like they are today...)?).

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#187

Post by andy_ppp » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 1:37 PM UTC

nabla9 wrote: post #174

kalleboo wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if there are people out there who deny climate change, geopolitics like this ought to convince everyone that distributed renewable energy is the way forward.

Climate change denial is large problem only in Anglosphere. Germany did more than any other country to realize the modern renewable-energy industry and it's failed its climate goals. The lesson should be that you have to try every tool in the toolbox, including nuclear energy. Fukushima accident revealed the irrationality of the public. Fukushima-scale accident every decade somewhere in the world would be low cost to…

I think the problem of nuclear proliferation shouldn't be underestimated in this grand idea to replace fossil fuels.

A few extra nuclear bombs going off per year in cities would soon change the desire for this I suspect.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#188

Post by emteycz » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 1:37 PM UTC

antientropic wrote: post #99

TomMarius wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democracy does not mean that the parliament and council is in favor, but that "the people" (translation of "demos") have "power" (translation of "kratos").

But the parliament and (more indirectly) the council were chosen by the people to exercise power on their behalf in democratic elections.

I am sick of people using this as some kind of an universal argument. The communist party in 1946 was also elected lawfully in my country, and Hitler also was (and yes, I'm fully aware that he lied to the German people - that's the point). And the fact that someone elected these people does not change anything about the possibility of them lying to the people that elected them, and it also changes nothing about the lawful and moral obligation these people have to their people (people they represent - all citizens of their country, not "people that voted for them"!) that they should act in their best interests - which they can just not do at any time, such as now, which makes this argument irrelevant.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#189

Post by chris_mc » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 1:38 PM UTC

nabla9 wrote: post #174

kalleboo wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if there are people out there who deny climate change, geopolitics like this ought to convince everyone that distributed renewable energy is the way forward.

Climate change denial is large problem only in Anglosphere. Germany did more than any other country to realize the modern renewable-energy industry and it's failed its climate goals. The lesson should be that you have to try every tool in the toolbox, including nuclear energy. Fukushima accident revealed the irrationality of the public. Fukushima-scale accident every decade somewhere in the world would be low cost to…

Nuclear isn't built because it isn't financially viable. I'd love to see more nuclear, but it just isn't going to happen anytime soon. Maybe if we added a carbon tax that was reasonable considering the climate emergency it might be.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#190

Post by Juliate » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 1:38 PM UTC

paganel wrote: post #181

raverbashing wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right about his influence in the EU and on the directive. However he's completely in his right to have the army against disorderly protests that cause damage (including fire to historical buildings the last time).

Armies are supposed to fight against foreign troops, at worst, they are supposed to take sides in the event of a civil war, in no way are they supposed to be sent against their own citizenry. At least not in a democratic country. What's worst is that the crooks that run things around my part of the continent (I live in Eastern Europe) have given Macron's recent actions as an example, as in: "if France's rulers are ha…

Militaries were not sent against anyone, they were placed to protect more of the institutions (that were not on the paths of protests), so that police forces could be relieved there to be concentrated on hot protest areas.