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PayPal has permanently banned The Hacker News and hold funds for 180 days

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Re: PayPal has permanently banned The Hacker News and hold funds for 180 days

#181

Post by concerned_user »

mackey wrote: post #174
sparkie wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK has more consumer protection laws in general, so the need for the card issuer to provide protection is not as necessary. Credit cards have some perks, but they also have interest rates which debit cards do not. Many people would rather avoid getting into debt at all, because it can be very easy to go just over budget and end up paying more than you wanted, or getting locked in a debt spiral where you can't aff…

I can understand not wanting a CC if you don't trust yourself to be responsible, but if you are responsible its effectively the same as debit card + better perks. I have never paid any interest in the 14 years of using CCs and use them for everything. Now I understand that being responsible is easier said than done, given various circumstance. I grew up without a lot money and my parents were pretty religious about b…

Do you live in Europe? Because to get all those benefits you mention credit card is quite a bit more expensive than the debit one. Also cashback is not a thing in Europe.

Re: PayPal has permanently banned The Hacker News and hold funds for 180 days

#182

Post by timthorn »

sparkie wrote: post #159
timthorn wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we mostly use debit cards these days Which seems odd to me. Credit cards offer the advantages of points/cashback and more importantly the Consumer Credit Act, such that the card issuer is jointly liable for the goods. I only use my debit card to withdraw cash as the protections and incentives with my credit cards are much better.

The UK has more consumer protection laws in general, so the need for the card issuer to provide protection is not as necessary. Credit cards have some perks, but they also have interest rates which debit cards do not. Many people would rather avoid getting into debt at all, because it can be very easy to go just over budget and end up paying more than you wanted, or getting locked in a debt spiral where you can't aff…

> need for the card issuer to provide protection is not as necessary

It is a legal responsibility upon the issuer, rather than a discretionary benefit. It is particularly beneficial when a retailer goes out of business; an undelivered or broken order will be refunded, whereas if the bill was paid by debit card you'd just be considered a creditor.

Re: PayPal has permanently banned The Hacker News and hold funds for 180 days

#183

Post by neilwilson »

concerned_user wrote: post #169
timthorn wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we mostly use debit cards these days Which seems odd to me. Credit cards offer the advantages of points/cashback and more importantly the Consumer Credit Act, such that the card issuer is jointly liable for the goods. I only use my debit card to withdraw cash as the protections and incentives with my credit cards are much better.

You are correct but from my experience when I was visiting UK in 2008 you get charged with extra fee it was ~2% if you want to use the credit card or it was no extra fee if debit, so I was advised not to use credit card. Now I don't know if it was only specific places like aldi/tesco since I've only been there few weeks, and only to those places. Also cashbacks are not a thing even in 2018 in eastern europe at least,…

Such a surcharge was banned in the UK in January 2018. Now vendors have to accept all forms of payment they accept at no additional cost to the consumer.

Re: PayPal has permanently banned The Hacker News and hold funds for 180 days

#184

Post by timthorn »

concerned_user wrote: post #181
mackey wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can understand not wanting a CC if you don't trust yourself to be responsible, but if you are responsible its effectively the same as debit card + better perks. I have never paid any interest in the 14 years of using CCs and use them for everything. Now I understand that being responsible is easier said than done, given various circumstance. I grew up without a lot money and my parents were pretty religious about b…

Do you live in Europe? Because to get all those benefits you mention credit card is quite a bit more expensive than the debit one. Also cashback is not a thing in Europe.

I do. And while I pay a fee for one of my credit cards, another (that gets me cashback in a supermarket) is free.

Re: PayPal has permanently banned The Hacker News and hold funds for 180 days

#185

Post by sys_64738 »

bougiefever wrote: post #109

Every chance I get, I tell people not to use PayPal. They have done this repeatedly, and the people who are affected have absolutely no recourse unless they happen to own a popular newspaper. PayPal has been shamed into doing the right thing, and that seems to be the only recourse. From reports I've heard, their internal system doesn't exist, and they aren't a bank, so there is no legal recourse either.

I wouldn't use ebay if I couldn't use paypal. I don't want to use my CC for any online xacts if I don't need to. I'd rather use paypal to protect myself or just shop at a site I trust (e.g. Amazon).

People who receive monies via PP need to protect themselves by assuming PP could freeze their account at any time. That means keeping the minimum amount of $$ possible under PP's control. I know there are regs to that but you need to protect yourself.

Re: PayPal has permanently banned The Hacker News and hold funds for 180 days

#186

Post by xte »

Well they discover a thing: regulation may slow down things, but protect. A bank can't lock you out without facing trial, an internet company, far less regulated can.

Now think many time because we generally do no see banks as something "good" especially these days. If such days arrive it means that we are really in a dangerous situation.

And for we I mean "society".

Re: PayPal has permanently banned The Hacker News and hold funds for 180 days

#187

Post by concerned_user »

neilwilson wrote: post #183
concerned_user wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct but from my experience when I was visiting UK in 2008 you get charged with extra fee it was ~2% if you want to use the credit card or it was no extra fee if debit, so I was advised not to use credit card. Now I don't know if it was only specific places like aldi/tesco since I've only been there few weeks, and only to those places. Also cashbacks are not a thing even in 2018 in eastern europe at least,…

Such a surcharge was banned in the UK in January 2018. Now vendors have to accept all forms of payment they accept at no additional cost to the consumer.

Here in Lithuania we have this since ~2013 or maybe even earlier, that you can't charge lower price because of the payment method. But to get around that law vendors here give discount, i.e. you are not banned from saying - we give x discount if you pay cash.

Although I stopped seeing it lately so I guess it was banned as well, most shops started rollout of their own or joint loyalty schemes with points, and they are very clear on that points are not money but x points equals certain amount of discount, which is funny to watch but it is essentially a loophole around this law once again.

Re: PayPal has permanently banned The Hacker News and hold funds for 180 days

#188

Post by jammygit »

zdkl wrote: post #80
ineedasername wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"completely relying on a 3rd party..." Okay, agreed it's not ideal, but for payment processing what's the alternative?

GNU Taler is aimed at this. https://taler.net/en/

I bet they could use contributors if anyone is bored

Re: PayPal has permanently banned The Hacker News and hold funds for 180 days

#189

Post by jammygit »

danso wrote: post #176
naasking wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should a payment processor be able to make such legal decisions? That's what the courts are for. The current trend of cutting services for political reasons is problematic at best, particularly when there's arguably a monopoly. There needs to be more transparency, and a clear and fair system for arbitration and dispute resolution. Better still, one that's consistent across all digital services so people know what…

You’re arguing that companies should only be able to decline service after a court allows them to?

I think he's saying that near-monopolies should have to follow special rules because the market system breaks down

Re: PayPal has permanently banned The Hacker News and hold funds for 180 days

#190

Post by KozmoNau7 »

barry-cotter wrote: post #50
febin wrote: post #20

Paypal has done this multiple times, here are some incidents. https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/My-Account/Permanent-BAN... https://medium.com/@puntofisso/paypal-closed-my-account-with... https://www.elliott.org/blog/banned-from-palpal-account-limi... https://www.success.grownupgeek.com/index.php/2008/04/05/pay... Completely relying on any third party is a bad idea. We should consider the risks when we signup to an…

Well everyone who wants to accept payments on the internet ultimately relies on VisaMasterCard. They will shut you off and get other payment processors to shut you off like happened to SubscribeStar when they set up as a Patreon competitor. https://twitter.com/nickmon1112/status/1076886857445711872?s... Long twitter thread on the relation between MasterCard, Visa and Patreon and how the credit card cartel is attempti…

There's a whole lot of conspiracy speculation in there, especially the idea of "SPLC's anti-conservative purge".

Simply put, being associated with hard-right political figures is seen as problematic by Mastercard, Patreon, Paypal etc., and they are trying to minimize their risk, because they don't want to lose business. They have to do this, due to their obligations to shareholders, boards of directors and advertisers, who are all very concerned about public opinion's influence on their bottom line.

If you want to get to the heart of this "voluntary censorship", you have to either improve the public image of hard-right figures, so they're no longer seen as problematic, or break the reputation/bottom line relationship, or outright change the way businesses are run and held accountable, which would probably mean changing some fundamental things about capitalism.

Unless you want to abolish capitalism outright, I would suggest lessening the grip of corporations on payment services, and introduce a federal bank and federal payment service for the people. After all, isn't the ability to make and receive payment a public good on the level of water and electricity? Make it for everyone, equally.

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