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PayPal has permanently banned The Hacker News and hold funds for 180 days

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Re: PayPal has permanently banned The Hacker News and hold funds for 180 days

#171
Often, the bans are just because they implemented Federal rules in the most stupid way possible.

For example, the US has something called the "Office of Foreign Assets Control" (OFAC). It's a list of names that companies like PayPal are supposed to prevent from being sent payments.

Paypal chose to implement it with super dumb string matching in ANY field. So, for example, if you put the words "Castro", "Cuba" or "JAMES KANG" into ANY field (even a MEMO field)...your payment gets stopped and your account frozen until you send them the DOB for "Cuba", even though it was just in a memo field.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160817/13505935266/paypa...

https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/About-Business-Archive/T...

https://imgur.com/a/RnpRm

Re: PayPal has permanently banned The Hacker News and hold funds for 180 days

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A concrete location is something very specific, and the number of newspapers per town is very small.

There are multiple places called Washington and post can mean "mail delivery" or "sign post" or "work assignments".

You are grasping for straws in a truly disgusting but not even entertaining way.

Re: PayPal has permanently banned The Hacker News and hold funds for 180 days

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why quote the entire comment you’re replying to?

isoskeles> Why quote the entire comment you’re replying to? Not the person of whom you're asking, but I sometimes quote substantial parts of text to which I'm replying for three basic reasons. The first is that in a large thread if can sometimes be difficult to find the original. In that case it's useful to have the comment there, not least because if you want to see the original you have the exact text to search for…

Let's not forget that entire HN threads can disappear too. Had a thread on which I make a comment disappear once.

Re: PayPal has permanently banned The Hacker News and hold funds for 180 days

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we mostly use debit cards these days Which seems odd to me. Credit cards offer the advantages of points/cashback and more importantly the Consumer Credit Act, such that the card issuer is jointly liable for the goods. I only use my debit card to withdraw cash as the protections and incentives with my credit cards are much better.

The UK has more consumer protection laws in general, so the need for the card issuer to provide protection is not as necessary. Credit cards have some perks, but they also have interest rates which debit cards do not. Many people would rather avoid getting into debt at all, because it can be very easy to go just over budget and end up paying more than you wanted, or getting locked in a debt spiral where you can't aff…

I can understand not wanting a CC if you don't trust yourself to be responsible, but if you are responsible its effectively the same as debit card + better perks. I have never paid any interest in the 14 years of using CCs and use them for everything.

Now I understand that being responsible is easier said than done, given various circumstance. I grew up without a lot money and my parents were pretty religious about budgeting cash weekly into envelopes, but even they eventually switched to using CCs and only spending what they had cash for. Too hard to pass up cash back on gas, groceries, bills, etc. Every little bit helps.

Re: PayPal has permanently banned The Hacker News and hold funds for 180 days

#175
post #168
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oligopoly. Discover card and American Express are both mostly accepted Duopoly when you are in Europe. Discover card and American Express is not really a thing here.

I'm not entirely sure what your question is? If it matters that Discover and Amex is not being accepted? Most adults will be using credit cards, unless you haven't proven to your bank yet that you are trustworhty (i.e. just moved to the country). Debit is usually younger people, below 18 (at least in DK). Both are still Visa or MasterCard. It would still be a problem, if as a merchant got banned by Visa/MasterCard, s…

> Most adults will be using credit cards

This really depends on the country. In Germany, most day-to-day payments happen with cash or over the Girocard network. I got by for most of my adult life without a credit card. The only thing that's kind of tricky is booking a hotel without one (international hotel chains have standardized their registration systems around credit cards). I only got a credit card last year because it's free with my current checking account.

Re: PayPal has permanently banned The Hacker News and hold funds for 180 days

#176
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So ... PayPal made the right call.

Why should a payment processor be able to make such legal decisions? That's what the courts are for. The current trend of cutting services for political reasons is problematic at best, particularly when there's arguably a monopoly. There needs to be more transparency, and a clear and fair system for arbitration and dispute resolution. Better still, one that's consistent across all digital services so people know what…

You’re arguing that companies should only be able to decline service after a court allows them to?

Re: PayPal has permanently banned The Hacker News and hold funds for 180 days

#177
So you can take someone's money and not give them a reason for it? Isn't this called theft?

This happened to a very minor account we had, reasoning was dubious.

Without any kind of transparency or due process ... (or competition) ... this is a problem.

Re: PayPal has permanently banned The Hacker News and hold funds for 180 days

#178

All this talk of monopoly in this sector of finance makes me wonder how you'd start a service in this space. And it made me realize I have no idea how it works. I swipe (or insert w/ chip) at a POS... which then beamz the transaction to VISA? So do you need to get a partnership with all of the POS vendors? Is that open or closed? Of course, that presupposes that someone has your card. VISA doesn't make cards, they ju…

There is a lot more to it than that, there is merchant acquiring (merchant relationship with a payment services provider that gives merchants the credentials and equipment to accept payments), there are sometimes aggregators that transactions then funnel into. Next the transactions hit a network which acts as the router between acquirers and issuers (more on this later). The network can also act as a default stand in…

Is there some good resource on how this all works in reality, or is it just something you learn by working in the sector?

Re: PayPal has permanently banned The Hacker News and hold funds for 180 days

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it bottom out in these credit card companies? Is it just prohibitively hard to set up a competitor because you need some critical mass of banks to sign on? Or because people want to pay with credit card and cc companies will prohibit transactions to a fledgling competitor?

Ultimately the ones who issue the credit are the banks. Banks have a lot of rules to follow set by the government. They are the ones who created visa and mc. PayPal, stripe all these other services ultimately rely on them. You can do BTC, but there is risk there to with trasaction costs and changing exchange rate. These banks want to reduce thier risks as much as possible. CC laws in America provide a lot of protecti…

It's not about 'rules' and not even so much mitigating risk - it's just basic cartel/oligarchy practices.

They do it because they think it's good for them, and/or they can.

It sometimes only takes one person, doing what they think is right, for whatever reason, for a lot of this stuff to happen.

Edit: we like to think that large systems are intelligent. Sometimes they are, if there are thoughtful rules and processes. More often than not - there aren't. CEOs lean on M&A teams to buy companies for a lot of money on a hunch. Because they 'liked' someone, or something, even when the research shows otherwise. When situations are politicized especially outside the scope of clear operational guidelines ... it can just be 'one person'.

Example: the CEO or someone else could send a half-sentence email 'do this' (i.e. shut down a customer) and it will get done. Maybe there was process, maybe not. Maybe it's politics, risk aversion. Maybe it's not corporate risk aversion but individual risk aversion, i.e. a VP not wanting to create a fuss. Maybe there's an outside body putting pressure on Visa/MC and someone inside doesn't want to put up a fuss. Maybe it's favours for favours. Maybe it's avoiding the ire of the Feds. Maybe there's a specious court order that Visa/MC thinks is spurious, but they don't want to bother arguing it. Maybe a a key customer or two are complaining. Maybe the PR lead is putting up a scare, indicating that there's going to be some major press about it soon and they need to get ahead of this. Maybe the VP Legal is protecting themselves. Or is being risk averse.

Even when it's complicated, it's often not complicated in a nice, rational way.

In my experience with large organization, it's really the reduction of personalities, self-interest, risk avoidance, sycophantism, 'following orders' etc.. There's rarely an overall coherent, thoughtful dynamic to these kinds of things.

But maybe there is a clear story here ...

Re: PayPal has permanently banned The Hacker News and hold funds for 180 days

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...how do you get bitcoin without some kind of a third party?

Sell a good/service and receive payment in Bitcoin

That's not really a practical way to acquire bitcoin since there is very little economic activity in the cryptocurrency world besides trading various cryptocurrencies. I know this first-hand since the e-commerce startup I work for brings in roughly 300k USD in sales monthly, with bitcoin sales never having exceeded $80.00 USD worth of value and often none at all.
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