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Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier
181–190 of 210 posts
Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sounds like a reasonable description of pretty much every communication/social platform since the 90s.
So what's the alternative? Even if we roll our own software we still utilize ISP lines.
But the ISP isn't semantically involved in the communication, so it's technically trivial to build stuff on top that prevents manipulation--namely, to encrypt everything. Also, it's not an economical problem either, as ISPs do get paid by their customers, so there is no need of any sort for them to be semantically involved.
You and I can establish a TLS connection between us through our respective ISPs, and the ISPs have no clue what we are talking over that connection, nor can they change it. The worst thing they can do is to drop the packets.
Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sounds like a reasonable description of pretty much every communication/social platform since the 90s.
So what's the alternative? Even if we roll our own software we still utilize ISP lines.
I've been running my own MatterMost (a Slack clone) instance for a little while now. I've invited some close friends, a tiny bit of family, and colleagues I particularly appreciate. It's been fantastic so far. I decided to host it on a VPS because upload speed at home truly sucks, and hosting it locally wouldn't turn into a good experience for other users. Still, I own all the data. I've told all the other members that I do, and they're OK with it.
I bought a nice sounding domain name, got an SSL certificate from Let's Encrypt, and was good to go! My mental health has been increasing since then (no joke).
Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier
#184"We cannot have a society in which, if two people wish to communicate, the only way that can happen is if it's financed by a third person who wishes to manipulate them" - From another article about Jaron Lanier
Sounds like a reasonable description of pretty much every communication/social platform since the 90s.
Since forever. Newspaper, books, TV, Radio, postal services etc... all have a cost associated and all are selective in how, where and what they publish or deliver.
Everyone is trying to influence everyone else. The question is simply what degree and magnitude you are willing to accept.
Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
So what's the alternative? Even if we roll our own software we still utilize ISP lines.
You can use a self-hosted federated solution. Examples are: - e-mail (effectively a federated system, before it was cool) - Mastodon - a social network instance like Diaspora - Matrix (matrix.org - "An open network for secure, decentralized communication.") - XMPP / Jabber - IRC (not federated, but self-hostable) ---- I've been on Mastodon for the last 3-4 months and it's been awesome so far. It's basically Twitter w…
It took me a while to understand Mastodon. Although it's federated and you can mostly follow people on other instances, I finally realised that the advice they give you up front is good advice: pick an instance that has conversations you are interested in and join that one. I've been having lots of fun once I realised that it's less of a publishing platform and more of a place to chat with strangers that have similar interests to you.
Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sounds like a reasonable description of pretty much every communication/social platform since the 90s.
So what's the alternative? Even if we roll our own software we still utilize ISP lines.
ISP here: The difference is that a (properly run, ethical) ISP is actually neutral and is paid to carry the traffic. It's paying for a service just like paying $30 a month for a POTS phone line was in 1985. Building an ISP as an infrastructure service is a totally viable business model, it's not sexy like selling "big data" to advertisers as Facebook does, but it's a plain old fashioned exchange of money for basic services, just the same as you pay for your household electrical service, gas service, and water/sewer.
Running an ISP costs money just as any other critical infrastructure service is. If you get all the way down to the OSI layer 1 of it, it costs a lot of money. There's major construction projects involved. Go do the budgetary figures on what it would cost to acquire the right-of-way and run a new 864 count ribbon cable of dark fiber from Hillsboro, OR to Boise, ID, for example.
An ISP that doesn't fuck with its customers' traffic is simply a pipe to run your own choice of communications protocols on top of. The job of the ISP is to manage infrastructure at OSI layers 1-3, the 4-7 are your problem.
Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
So what's the alternative? Even if we roll our own software we still utilize ISP lines.
It's the "wishes to manipulate them" part that's the problem.
As a network engineer, this is part of why I tell junior neteng and NOC staff that there is definitely such as thing as ethics in network engineering. And train them on what constitutes ethical vs unethical behavior on the part of an ISP.
I'm fortunate enough to have admin rights over the infrastructure of a small to medium sized regional player, where the senior management are principled individuals who would not even contemplate doing bullshit like hijacking http or DNS traffic.
Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier
#188"We cannot have a society in which, if two people wish to communicate, the only way that can happen is if it's financed by a third person who wishes to manipulate them" - From another article about Jaron Lanier
I don't understand this at all.
Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier
#189> Well, a pretty good test for whether a platform is BUMMER, is whether the Russian intelligence warfare units like the Internet Research Agency decided to target it and use it for manipulating people. That’s a really good measure. And so, if that’s the way you’re going to classify BUMMER, then the list is Facebook, Google including YouTube, Twitter, Reddit, and, of course, a few other Facebook properties like Instag…
Here is why the middle ground wont work. Changing technology is a lot faster than changing human nature. Propoganda works because it exploits how our mind works. Sure we can learn to listen to our better angels more often--we need better media education and critical thinking in schools for sure. But that takes time, and it's not perfect either. In many cases, the problems are better served with changing the plarforms or the technology.
Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe he is, but he spreads his message and communicates in the absolute worst way for anyone to actually listen to him or take him seriously. Which is really a shame.
Is he? To me he comes off as the quintessential rich Silicon Valley outsider nerd. His path has been so singular and so rewarding that he gives the impression of someone who doesn't need to be the least bit concerned about how he expresses himself. From a street hobo, that gets you instantly dismissed, but there's a counter-intuitive aspect where if you're a Jaron Lanier, it just further underscores that you're Jaron…
>From a street hobo, that gets you instantly dismissed, but there's a counter-intuitive aspect where if you're a Jaron Lanier, it just further underscores that you're Jaron Lanier and can do as you like. Because he is not trying to maximize trust in any way, he comes off as plausible even when expressing stuff that's unusual.