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Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

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Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#141

Post by timdavila »

ams6110 wrote: post #139
Maximus9000 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> $5/year/user I think facebook has each user valued at about $200USD/year. A 2016 article from the Guardian puts it at $60/year... so I'm not sure which number to believe. https://www.kqed.org/news/11661387/heres-how-much-you-are-wo... https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jan/28/how-much-...

At the same time, how many Facebook users would pay even $1/month to use the platform? I bet less than half.

Way less. Isn't 2% conversion a good rate in this industry?

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#142

Post by OedipusRex »

osrec wrote: post #136
jolesf wrote: post #122

"We cannot have a society in which, if two people wish to communicate, the only way that can happen is if it's financed by a third person who wishes to manipulate them" - From another article about Jaron Lanier

Sounds like a reasonable description of pretty much every communication/social platform since the 90s.

So what's the alternative? Even if we roll our own software we still utilize ISP lines.

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#143

Post by craftyguy »

OedipusRex wrote: post #142
osrec wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a reasonable description of pretty much every communication/social platform since the 90s.

So what's the alternative? Even if we roll our own software we still utilize ISP lines.

True net neutrality would be a good start for addressing the ISP lines problem, though the complete solution would have to be some decentralized thing.

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#144

Post by lyjackal »

OedipusRex wrote: post #142
osrec wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a reasonable description of pretty much every communication/social platform since the 90s.

So what's the alternative? Even if we roll our own software we still utilize ISP lines.

ISP isn't financing the transaction. They're financed by it

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#145

Post by lifeformed »

OedipusRex wrote: post #142
osrec wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a reasonable description of pretty much every communication/social platform since the 90s.

So what's the alternative? Even if we roll our own software we still utilize ISP lines.

It's the "wishes to manipulate them" part that's the problem.

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#146

Post by athenot »

sizzle wrote: post #128
athenot wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is all summed up in one word: friction. What the big platforms have done is eliminate friction at all the critical parts, to make it easy for users to onboard, easy to share, easy to grow within the platform, and of course hard to leave. I've been thinking about a low cost but not free platform too. If it ever happens, it will have to be AT LEAST as frictionless and enticing as the existing platforms. The table…

I'm curious, can anyone estimate the developer hours it would take to clone WhatsApp's UX, features and functionality? Would it be doable since it's already developed and they solved the hard problems for syncing messages across timezones and it may be feasible to follow their tech stack as a blueprint/starting point? Facebook and Instagram had no trouble stealing the concept of 'stories' from Snapchat and Facebook a…

WhatsApp's popularity originally came from how it ran on many WAP phone systems, not just iOS and Android but also all the feature phones. What they did looked crazy from the outside but they effectively re-implemented SMS at a lower cost, for nearly all phones. That was not a trivial amount of effort, but it produced a lower financial friction than competition.

A disrupter would have to have even less friction but would be competing against a product that already has a significant network effect and a very generous backing by Facebook. I'm speculating that FB will eventually nudge WhatsApp users to Messenger, or find a way to gradually merge the services to the point where they are identical, especially w.r.t. advertisement.

In that respect, it was brilliant of FB to acquire WhatsApp: not just for the users, but to make it hard for any newcommer to disrupt things (hard to compete againsts free and frictionless).

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#147

Post by lgleason »

There is a new documentary called "The Creepy Line", it's on both Amazon Prime and Apple I-Tunes that also talks about this. Well worth watching. This is a big issue today, and makes it far too easy for big tech to have enormous power, and as we've seen with Google etc. it is not being used for good the way the marketeers are trying to portray they are.

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#148

Post by stinky613 »

lifeformed wrote: post #145
OedipusRex wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what's the alternative? Even if we roll our own software we still utilize ISP lines.

It's the "wishes to manipulate them" part that's the problem.

ISPs injecting ads sounds like a wish to manipulate

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/09/why-comcasts-jav...

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#149

Post by template3 »

darkerside wrote: post #123
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the bigger problem in the US would be how to deal with free-speech issues. It either has to be moderated (sorry, no free speech here!) or it will be overrun by trolls, spammers, and other evils.

That's a great point. No need for moderation through postal mail because it's all 1-to-1 communication. OTOH, all broadcast media is heavily moderated today.

Lol postal mail has a long history of moderation. A lot of first amendment case law with respect to obscenity and fraud comes from postal cases.

Re: Delete Your Account Now: A Conversation with Jaron Lanier

#150

Post by wolco »

athenot wrote: post #57
JepZ wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, while I dream the same dream, it feels awkward asking my family and friends to pay 5€ per year so that we can share the cost of running our XMPP-Server. Currently, I pay all the bills and manage the server myself (so no cost/effort for them), and they still keep using WhatsApp with most of their contacts. I don't know what the root of that evil is, but there are undoubtedly multiple factors involved. First of a…

This is all summed up in one word: friction. What the big platforms have done is eliminate friction at all the critical parts, to make it easy for users to onboard, easy to share, easy to grow within the platform, and of course hard to leave. I've been thinking about a low cost but not free platform too. If it ever happens, it will have to be AT LEAST as frictionless and enticing as the existing platforms. The table…

What about a facebook clone with regular ads?
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