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Why Static Websites Need HTTPS

troyhunt.com

181–190 of 268 posts

Re: Why Static Websites Need HTTPS

#181

Let's Encrypt is one of the best things that happened to the web recently. I wish we had more choices though. Relying so much on a single party is unnerving.

Do we have conclusive evidence yet that LE is not a honey pot? I mean, if I were the NSA...

HTTPS security model is fundamentally broken to meet the needs of the junta. National Security Letters can be used to "legally" obtain root certificate keys of all Root CAs even remotely affiliated with the United States. You must be extremely naive to believe that the NSA has not already collected all Root CA keys relevant to operations within USA borders. NSL also tend to forbid disclosure of the existence of the NSL, so you will never know that the Root CA is compromised. If you as a Root CA disclose the existence of such a NSL, MS-13 might pay you a visit, and you might unfortunately show up on a obituary in a newspaper nobody reads.

Re: Why Static Websites Need HTTPS

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CORS requires an HTTP header white listing allowed domains. If the attacker can modify the HTTP headers they don't need to modify the HTTP body in order to perform an attack. > Also, the attacker could inject tags First, the image needs to be requested using the same protocol that requested the page or it will notify the user of insecure assets. Second, but they would have to write a custom script to gather the data…

>CORS requires an HTTP header white listing allowed domains. If the attacker can modify the HTTP headers they don't need to modify the HTTP body in order to perform an attack. The attacker owns evil.com. They can make it have any headers they want, and then javascript on yoursite.com or any other site is allowed to make ajax requests to it. (Of course, they'd still need to do a man-in-the-middle attack on yoursite.co…

> The attacker owns evil.com. They can make it have any headers they want, and then javascript on yoursite.com or any other site is allowed to make ajax requests to it.

Only if the page is originally requested from evil.com or if evil.com is listed in the CORS http header from the legitimate domain.

In order for this attack to work evil.com needs to be added to the CORS list in the http header and JavaScript needs to be inserted into the page body to make XHR calls to the evil.com domain.

> Did you test this on HN?

I tested it on a couple of sites both with http and https. It is not a valid vector of attack. Don't take my word for it. Try it.

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All these technical conversations are really a red herring based upon the untested assumption that modification of page traffic is trivial if the page is served over HTTP. While this is possible it isn't trivial and requires multiple stages of compromise.

Typically man in the middle attacks refer to encrypted traffic, such as HTTPS, instead of plain text traffic. The benefit of a man in the middle attack is that the attacker is in the encrypted tunnel between the two end points reading data that is otherwise encrypted and thereby voiding any benefit of encryption.

Modifying traffic is less trivial than reading traffic. It is certainly less valuable when there are security conventions in place to ensure end point authenticity, as in limited to only locations that are available by address and policy.

> I don't mean to brag, but just to point out a possibly relevant credential:

Don't care. I myself have found and reported a critical flaw in V8 that broke recursive function access under certain conditions. I don't remember when the resolution was released to V8, but it was first available to Node with 4.2.4 on 2015-12-23. All prior versions of V8 were impacted.

> If an attacker MITMs yoursite.com and modifies the javascript

And how would you do that? I have not seen anybody prove they can both MiTM a production site and modify the data in a way that breaks same origin policy yet everybody says its trivial. If you really want to brag and get another 4 digit bug bounty then prove that.

Re: Why Static Websites Need HTTPS

#184

If browsers supported a method to provide content securely without the need to encrypt everything, lots of uses of the web would not be hampered by the TLS-everything-that-moves movement. The limitations we have accepted in our browsers are what causes these conflicts. But we don't have to accept them. We could do with less propaganda and more compromise and innovation.

I'm unsure on how you could do what you've said without encryption. Any ideas?

Re: Why Static Websites Need HTTPS

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we have conclusive evidence yet that LE is not a honey pot? I mean, if I were the NSA...

HTTPS security model is fundamentally broken to meet the needs of the junta. National Security Letters can be used to "legally" obtain root certificate keys of all Root CAs even remotely affiliated with the United States. You must be extremely naive to believe that the NSA has not already collected all Root CA keys relevant to operations within USA borders. NSL also tend to forbid disclosure of the existence of the N…

If this were something the NSA were actually doing, wouldn't we have noticed it by now via the rogue certificates showing up in certificate transparency logs?

Re: Why Static Websites Need HTTPS

#186
I feel like this article has been posted a dozen times already, but the "past" link is showing this as the only submission.

EDIT: Nevermind, I'm confusing it with similar discussions:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17651652

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17599022

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17605973

Re: Why Static Websites Need HTTPS

#187
post #184

If browsers supported a method to provide content securely without the need to encrypt everything, lots of uses of the web would not be hampered by the TLS-everything-that-moves movement. The limitations we have accepted in our browsers are what causes these conflicts. But we don't have to accept them. We could do with less propaganda and more compromise and innovation.

I'm unsure on how you could do what you've said without encryption. Any ideas?

You could securely sign the data in a tamper resistant way. Although that would be at least as disruptive to http as https is. And it also can't obscure the specific pages you're visiting.

Re: Why Static Websites Need HTTPS

#188
post #184

If browsers supported a method to provide content securely without the need to encrypt everything, lots of uses of the web would not be hampered by the TLS-everything-that-moves movement. The limitations we have accepted in our browsers are what causes these conflicts. But we don't have to accept them. We could do with less propaganda and more compromise and innovation.

I'm unsure on how you could do what you've said without encryption. Any ideas?

Cryptographic verification?

Re: Why Static Websites Need HTTPS

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, you're right. My phrasing was not the best. The rogue CA would need to perform a classical MiTM as all the other mortals do, having access to the signing keys does not give you special MiTM powers, other than when you actually are able to conduct a MiTM through other means, you'll have valid certs to intercept the connection. Totally agree with your point about trust being a very hard problem to solve, tha…

> The rogue CA would need to perform a classical MiTM as all the other mortals do, having access to the signing keys does not give you special MiTM powers, other than when you actually are able to conduct a MiTM through other means, you'll have valid certs to intercept the connection. But this thread is operating under the thought experiment that the NSA already owns LetsEncrypt. And in reality-- at least according t…

The point is that the NSA doesn't need to own Let's Encrypt to do that; they could use literally _any_ certificate authority.

Also there _is_ a third piece of the triforce; certificate transparency logs; and those would be very difficult to compromise without the certificate transparency monitors noticing.

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