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Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

nytimes.com

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Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#181

Post by ithinkinstereo »

pravda wrote: post #141
ithinkinstereo wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I predict we're going to see many more such incidents of labor "going postal" in the near and medium term. Doubly so if the economy contracts and goes into a recession. Just look at the situation in NYC with ride-sharing and all the taxi driver suicides.

>Just look at the situation in NYC with ride-sharing and all the taxi driver suicides. To clarify this, it is not 'taxi driver' suicides, it is suicides by medallion investors. Most drivers do not own medallions. http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2012/06/taxi...

There are plenty of non-medallion drivers being squeezed by the recent Uber/Lyft boom.

A poster above me highlights one example of a livery driver whose income fell precipitously after the ride-sharing floodgates opened.

Even Uber/Lyft drivers themselves are being squeezed (which I guess is the whole point). Look at the conditions that many bay area ride-sharing drivers face... driving hours from their homes outside the bay to make barely above minimum wage (if that) driving 60-80-100 hours a week in the city.

Meanwhile all the marketing from these companies paint a rosy picture of "being your own boss" and earning "side-hustle" money, when in reality most of these drivers are, like taxi drivers, poor immigrants killing themselves trying to make a living (and without all the benefits and protections of a "traditional" job).

Nothing I'm saying is extreme or a stretch. If you live in a major urban area you can literally see it and experience it for yourself. I've made this same point across different threads and keep on getting down-voted, but as Sinclair once said "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!"

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#182

Post by betteroffchuck »

projectileboy wrote: post #178
claydavisss wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No no no. People who overpaid for medallions gambled and lost. It is not my problem to subsidize. Why not also subsidize traders who lose on a stock? If you want a society where people can't lose then you also get a society where no one wins.

I wouldn’t necessarily say you’re wrong, but (at least in the US) we have a long history of taxpayer-subsidized bailouts for the very wealthy who take gambles and lose (e.g., 80s S&L crisis, but there are countless others). It’s an interesting and unfortunate cultural aspect of America that we really, really hate the poor, and seek to hold them accountable for their actions to a degree that we simply don’t do for the…

Poverty is the Lord's way of anointing the sinners for the righteous to cull.

Ephesians 1:11 “In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.”

The parts of US culture I am familiar with blur the lines between godliness and wealth pretty far. It is a common belief that the poor are being justly punished for their sins, and that only good things happen to good people.

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#183

Post by ethbro »

claydavisss wrote: post #175
ethbro wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is something that's made me think a lot about the health care debate. Would it not be just that, if we're going to rewrite the economic rules in some areas, we give partial compensation towards those we just screwed over? Presumably we're changing the rules because of progress (e.g. Uber and Lyft showing on-demand rideshare has a market), which is good for everyone. But say the human lifespan is 85 years +/-. 25…

No no no. People who overpaid for medallions gambled and lost. It is not my problem to subsidize. Why not also subsidize traders who lose on a stock? If you want a society where people can't lose then you also get a society where no one wins.

Presumably they bought the medallions at current fair market value.

I'd draw a distinction between those who risk their own capital for themselves, and those who risk capital through others (aka investors). It's not an easy distinction to codify, but it seems important.

Society needs people taking risks for themselves. To benefit themselves. And instead of paying after they've hit rock bottom, maybe it would be smarter to do a bit to keep that from happening.

Because change isn't slowing down...

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#184

Post by paulie_a »

stephengillie wrote: post #157
acct1771 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You put so much (undeserved) faith in the missile launching crowd...000000 comes to mind.

Other industries have controls that prevent simple passwords from being used. Who audits the missile control groups?

The all zero thing goes back a while when someone in the military was told to put launch codes in and defiantly made them 0. Because God forbid there should be any protection on the most deadly device ever created by man.

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#185

Post by throw2016 »

salawat wrote: post #120

It seems to me to be a continuation of the pattern of labor 'Going Postal' in the labor hostile environment that has emerged since Reagan. This should be a wake-up call to everyone in the country. We can't survive without being able to trust and respect each other as human beings. Part of that is recognizing that even the most humble occupations deserve a fair wage and chance at advancement in life. If we can't respe…

If we take the conversation at face value this individual does not appear to be malicious.

What's unsettling is a cheerful disposition mixed with deep resigned sadness. In a weird way its like he had given up and was broken but yet wanted his last shot at some 'fun', and also a bit of a protest while he is at it.

It's feels both disjointed and coherent. He is another voice in a growing realization of the need to organize society around people and not markets.

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#186

Post by grkvlt »

salawat wrote: post #120

It seems to me to be a continuation of the pattern of labor 'Going Postal' in the labor hostile environment that has emerged since Reagan. This should be a wake-up call to everyone in the country. We can't survive without being able to trust and respect each other as human beings. Part of that is recognizing that even the most humble occupations deserve a fair wage and chance at advancement in life. If we can't respe…

Which part of an MBA syllabus deals with suicidally insane employees, again? I'm guessing the bit about liability insurance coverage, maybe? I'm 100% willing to bet it's not a section on how to help and retain employees with mental health issues by dealing with things in a sensitive and understanding fashion though, sadly...

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#187

Post by toomuchtodo »

grkvlt wrote: post #186
salawat wrote: post #120

It seems to me to be a continuation of the pattern of labor 'Going Postal' in the labor hostile environment that has emerged since Reagan. This should be a wake-up call to everyone in the country. We can't survive without being able to trust and respect each other as human beings. Part of that is recognizing that even the most humble occupations deserve a fair wage and chance at advancement in life. If we can't respe…

Which part of an MBA syllabus deals with suicidally insane employees, again? I'm guessing the bit about liability insurance coverage, maybe? I'm 100% willing to bet it's not a section on how to help and retain employees with mental health issues by dealing with things in a sensitive and understanding fashion though, sadly...

Ethics, supposedly.

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#188

Post by unchurch »

refurb wrote: post #171
unchurch wrote: post #148

> Mr. Russell and his wife were active church members, Mr. Orr said, “so he doesn’t really fit the bill of someone who would steal an airplane.” Can we please stop insinuating that people who attend church are perfect and incapable of doing wrong and, by omission, insinuating that those of us who do not are evil? Edit: If the downvoters would like to explain how I’m wrong, that would be lovely.

I think you’re arguing a point that isn’t being made.

And when has that ever stopped Hacker News?

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#189

Post by toomuchtodo »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #162
AlimJaffer wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's less politics, and more to do with empathy for the common man. Mental illness is at an all-time high, wages are low, poverty is incredibly visible, and based off of postings on Reddit, Facebook, etc. there's a general attitude of being despondent due to the current economic and political climate. Something has to change, and it can only really start at the top - with government taking care of its citizens rather…

based off of postings on Reddit, Facebook, etc. there's a general attitude of being despondent due to the current economic and political climate. Something has to change Maybe spend less time on Reddit, Facebook, etc... Things probably aren't as bad as they look through the lens of social media.

The lens doesn’t change stagnant wages, health care and housing being out of reach, and income inequality.

Things are terrible, and putting your head in the sand does nothing but exacerbate the situation.

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#190

Post by GhostVII »

alkonaut wrote: post #164
sehugg wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not an MBA, but I think it's way too early to attribute motivation to this incident.

Reading the dialog I think it's fair to say that both a) the man was not quite well, and b) the only motivation he actually DID suggest was the stress of low wage. So there's that.

He seemed to throw the minimum wage thing in as an afterthought though, not sure that was actually a significant motivation for him.
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