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Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

nytimes.com

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Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#141

Post by pravda »

ithinkinstereo wrote: post #139
salawat wrote: post #120

It seems to me to be a continuation of the pattern of labor 'Going Postal' in the labor hostile environment that has emerged since Reagan. This should be a wake-up call to everyone in the country. We can't survive without being able to trust and respect each other as human beings. Part of that is recognizing that even the most humble occupations deserve a fair wage and chance at advancement in life. If we can't respe…

I predict we're going to see many more such incidents of labor "going postal" in the near and medium term. Doubly so if the economy contracts and goes into a recession. Just look at the situation in NYC with ride-sharing and all the taxi driver suicides.

>Just look at the situation in NYC with ride-sharing and all the taxi driver suicides.

To clarify this, it is not 'taxi driver' suicides, it is suicides by medallion investors.

Most drivers do not own medallions.

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2012/06/taxi...

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#142

Post by reddit_clone »

toyg wrote: post #78
ethbro wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because aside from not being trained to fly an aircraft, the pilot didn't seem to have any murderous intent. Killing an American citizen who is not presenting an immediate threat still needs a higher bar than "It's easier." Thankfully, the military pilots stayed cool in a situation like this and waited until they received orders to fire.

This. It’s like the situation with police shooting at people reaching for documents in the glovebox - presumption or fear should not be enough to deploy lethal force. Authorities should always strive to reach the best scenario, i.e. everyone safe and sound including perps. This is particularly true in situations where the perp shows clear signs of mental illness.

I was watching a British TV Serial ("Scott and Bailey") recently, and was amazed at the level of professionalism expected from UK police officers (assuming it is a somewhat accurate representation of reality).

One of the lead characters lands into serious, serious trouble when a drunk, fleeing suspect dies in a car crash.

Makes me really sad about the 'shoot first' culture around here ..

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#143

Post by bobthepanda »

hueving wrote: post #124
bobthepanda wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised that taxi capable employees are left by themselves to do this kind of work. This could've been preventable had there been a second person in the cockpit as well.

Does this second person live in the cockpit 24/7? This guy got in an unoccupied plane.

Do programmers just ship code to production without a second person to review code?

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#144

Post by [deleted] »

chrisper wrote: post #63
mistersquid wrote: post #47

Two things really caught me about this story besides the security implication. First, the skill Russell deployed from (only?) having used a PC flight simulator surprised me. If Russell in fact never had any flight experience outside a simulator, well, I'm just stunned at what he was capable of doing. (Linked in article, here for convenience.) [0] Second, and more importantly, Russell's demise is tragic, pure and simp…

I have put many hours in flight simulators (the ones you can install on your own PC). One day I decided to take a real flying lesson. It was almost the same as in the simulator. Obviously the controls are a bit different because of different feedback, but you get used to it quickly. I think what helps a lot is that there are so many very detailed plane packages out there you can buy for the simulators. Too bad the co…

[deleted]

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#145

Post by stephengillie »

bobthepanda wrote: post #143
hueving wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this second person live in the cockpit 24/7? This guy got in an unoccupied plane.

Do programmers just ship code to production without a second person to review code?

Are all peer reviews/pull requests equal?

A lot depends on the size, maturity, and customers of the group shipping code. One-person side/hobby projects wouldn't have a 2nd person to review the code. A previous employer initially had a "Deploy to Production" script that ran every 60 seconds, copying the Development folder to the Production folder - to make easier their testing in Prod.

But large publicly-held companies with more customers will often have auditors that require better controls over dev/test/UAT/Prod, and between developers and operators. Separation of Duties is essential to protecting Business Operations from disruptions caused by a single individual.

There should be some sort of lockout that requires 2 humans to put an airplane in the air - at least for major airlines, and could be mandated by law. This could range from a 2-key fuel shutoff for the engines, to different keys on the outer plane door and the inner cockpit door, to mandatory wheel boots on idle airplanes. And part of this would be a very good key management system, possibly with many physical keys managed by an airport or airline "key desk" - or maybe through electronic key-cards, RFID chips or key-fobs, or a smartphone app.

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#146

Post by jandrese »

bobthepanda wrote: post #143
hueving wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this second person live in the cockpit 24/7? This guy got in an unoccupied plane.

Do programmers just ship code to production without a second person to review code?

You probably don't want to hear the answer to this one.

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#147

Post by zifnab06 »

h4b4n3r0 wrote: post #74
beenBoutIT wrote: post #44

It's really nice to see American Air Supremacy in response to a potential terrorist air threat. Neutralizing the stolen plane with a Sidewinder missile would have provided a slightly better show of force to would-be terrorists, but this was pretty good IMO. Our Air Force is more powerful than it's ever been, while our mental health system was better off back in the 1940s.

Had the guy been a terrorist, he could have flown that plane into Seattle or into SeatTac airport itself. They wouldn't get here in time because they were flying in from Portland. We all got lucky this time.

F-15 max speed is 1646mph (around 0.45 mi/s). From take off in Portland to arriving at SeaTac would be less than 5 minutes at top speed. I assume it takes longer than that to get pilots in planes and takeoff.

Seattle also has JBLM (joint base Lewis/McChord, army and air Force), along with Bremerton naval base. I'm guessing they picked pdx because of pilot availability, travel time is near nothing compared to getting a plane in the air at those distances.

This could have been much worse. I feel bad for the guy, he needed help, but I'm glad it ended how it did. Crashing into another plane, or anywhere populated, would have been catastrophic.

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#148

Post by unchurch »

> Mr. Russell and his wife were active church members, Mr. Orr said, “so he doesn’t really fit the bill of someone who would steal an airplane.”

Can we please stop insinuating that people who attend church are perfect and incapable of doing wrong and, by omission, insinuating that those of us who do not are evil?

Edit: If the downvoters would like to explain how I’m wrong, that would be lovely.

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#149

Post by nickserv »

darpa_escapee wrote: post #129
salawat wrote: post #120

It seems to me to be a continuation of the pattern of labor 'Going Postal' in the labor hostile environment that has emerged since Reagan. This should be a wake-up call to everyone in the country. We can't survive without being able to trust and respect each other as human beings. Part of that is recognizing that even the most humble occupations deserve a fair wage and chance at advancement in life. If we can't respe…

Often these types of suicides aren't given publicity, though this one was too much of a spectacle to ignore. There was a man who shot himself on the steps of a government(?) building, which is a town over from where I'm originally from, because he was laid off. A friend showed me the note he left on Facebook before it got deleted. It was very clear that he had been struggling financially for years and the layoff was…

At one point, this type of desperate act might have far reaching consequences in the US, it's a matter of how desperate society is as a whole.

The Arab Spring revolutions were started by a suicide brought about by severe injustice and poverty.

Re: Man Who Stole Plane Near Seattle Raises Troubling Security Question

#150

Post by DmenshunlAnlsis »

nickserv wrote: post #149
darpa_escapee wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Often these types of suicides aren't given publicity, though this one was too much of a spectacle to ignore. There was a man who shot himself on the steps of a government(?) building, which is a town over from where I'm originally from, because he was laid off. A friend showed me the note he left on Facebook before it got deleted. It was very clear that he had been struggling financially for years and the layoff was…

At one point, this type of desperate act might have far reaching consequences in the US, it's a matter of how desperate society is as a whole. The Arab Spring revolutions were started by a suicide brought about by severe injustice and poverty.

In particular drought and subsequent famine, leading to not only poverty (which already existed), but food thst was priced beyond what most could afford in the necessary quantities and qualities. It’s a scary preview of what global climate change has in store for us all as people in marginal situations are suddenly thrust below the metaphorical (and occasionally real) water line. Political and social instability, war, mass migration, all are in the cards and here today.

The suicide was the spark, the tinder was almost literally brought about by a lack of water.

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