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White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

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Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#181

Post by sangnoir »

anon23423532 wrote: post #89
elago wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious how are you coming up with these economic projections? Are you running simulations? Reading reports? Are you an economist? What if China just sells to other customers? What is China subsidizes it's manufacturers, so they get paid and keep their production capacity whether or not they're actually producing? Exactly like soybean and corn farmers in the US are btw. The whole thing seems incredibly complex, a…

They can try selling to other customers, but US is still around 25% of global GDP and probably a larger percentage of the market for the components that have been tariffed. Chinese government would have to print a lot of money to make up for that, which causes it's own issues, especially when considering the amount of debt China has already racked up. The point isn't for the government to skim 25%, it's to get China…

> US consumers can live without another 42in tv, Chinese can't live without food and they are entirely dependent on importing that food.

All fair points, but can US politicians live with opposition from the agricultural lobby and/or rural vote? Political expediency beats long-term economic planning when politician's livelihoods are on the line.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#183

Post by kinsomo »

keo93ndn wrote: post #179

You’re considered a consumer of the things this targets Their real concern is protecting the supply side folks. Basically themselves You should only be buying from an American supplier, even though we just spent 30 years shutting them all down Because no one in this admin has a damn clue Factories won’t be growing up out of the grown churning out parts in 6 mos because of this The ignorant are shooting themselves in…

> You should only be buying from an American supplier, even though we just spent 30 years shutting them all down

> Factories won’t be growing up out of the grown churning out parts in 6 mos because of this

If you wanted to reverse the trend of all the American suppliers getting shut down, and re-build the American manufacturing base, what actions would you take to accomplish that?

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#184

Post by seanmcdirmid »

sangnoir wrote: post #176
znpy wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're saying we should make products in a less efficient and more expensive way to avoid relying on other countries? Not "other countries", just China. Now, I'm not an us citizen and I don't like Mr Trump particularly, but consider the following: when you say "less efficient" what are you referring to? Is it technology? USA are certainly not behind China on technology. So what is missing to the equation? It's labo…

> Also, you're not considering environmental impact (that the US, while not excelling at this, actually do consider). The US is a bigger polluter (per capita) than China. The current administration at the EPA seems to view environmental considerations as hindrances to industry competitiveness.

That isn’t true. The USA is a bigger producer of carbon per capita, but not pollution, which is defined very differently. This is why hebei cities have many AQI days above a normal 500 yet everyone freaks out whenever AQI in the states breaks 100 during a forest fire.

The EPA has never really bothered that regulate carbon, but they come down hard on the kind of air, water, and soil pollution that exists in China.

Should the USA do more about carbon? Ya, global warming sucks. But the EPA has solved the pollution problem that it was originally envisioned to solve.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#185

Post by odorousrex »

will_brown wrote: post #164
odorousrex wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that dodge the tariffs? (Legally) Let's say I'm Apple. I make MacPro's in Ft. Worth, Texas. The parts come from China. I now have to pay 25% more on those parts. However, since I'm Apple, I have manufactures making iPhones in China. So rationally, my best bet is to shut down my US based plant in Texas and move MacPro manufacturing to one of my factories in China. That way I legally dodge the tariffs since th…

Say you are Apple... You create a Foreign Trade Zone, ship your components there and manufacture there...you don’t pay tariffs on those Chinese components. Now the idea with political cronies/tech start ups that can raise SV funding, they will create one and turn around and offer manufacturers the opportunity to use the zone for their manufacturing (a la the Uber of Foreign Trade Zone/Free Trade Zone) Edit: Just chec…

That is actually rather clever, and will probably work for many smaller US manufacturers but it will still cause them to have to raise their prices slightly, as there is now another middle man they have to pay.

However enterprises like Apple will still find it cheaper to move to China.

VC may be reluctant to invest in such startups due to the fact that the current administration has been, how shall we put it...inconsistent? They are just as likely to revoke the tariffs in a month as they are to change the goods covered under it or expand it. Either change could make such a startup completely obsolete in no time at all.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#186

Post by stusmall »

Spooky23 wrote: post #141
stusmall wrote: post #66

I used to do a lot more embedded systems work. I've been 100% software lately and, looking at this list, I'm glad I started on that transition. I don't know what the exact BOM impact would have been on past projects, but it would have been rough. I can't get over this Don Quixote-esque crusade. This just hurts American competitiveness.

That is Putin’s point. That’s why there is a lot of investment in influence of the awful sources of information used by the President. Hopefully, when this guy is gone we look at reigning in the power of POTUS, which is clearly too strong now.

We'll see. The reason why the president has this power is congress also abused it. The ideal countermeasure for this is an educated electorate who doesn't fall for the false promises of trade barriers. As long as people buy into the lie of protectionism, there will be someone selling it.

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#187

Post by omegaworks »

YesThatTom2 wrote: post #107
luma wrote: post #28

I guess my earlier comment was too long, so let me provide a shorter version: this action actively harms anyone attempting to design, prototype, and manufacture electronic devices in the US. There isn't a single component in the projects I'm currently working on which isn't impacted by this. My cost of goods just went up by 25% across the board today in an effort to help "protect" American businesses. I don't feel li…

NO!! Don't you understand?? Yes, we'll suffer for 50 years, BUT in that time the supply chain will be created in the U.S. and our grandkids and their children will be able to benefit from having all that industry in the U.S. instead of China. And if I'm wrong, I won't be alive to be able to say I'm sorry to my grandkids who are now living in a barren wasteland. The best solutions are the ones you won't be around to s…

>our grandkids and their children will be able to benefit from having all that industry in the U.S. instead of China.

When those products were made here, it led to toxic chemical plumes and widespread soil contamination around the factories that produced semiconductors. [1]

>I'm sorry to my grandkids who are now living in a barren wasteland.

Trichloroethylene contamination produces heart defects, kidney and liver cancer. You are advocating to literally produce a toxic wasteland. [2]

1. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/26/lens/the-superfund-sites-...

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichloroethylene#Physiologica...

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#188

Post by stcredzero »

atomi wrote: post #154
HenryBemis wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And by the way isn't the bulk of our imports raw materials anyway? I would assume no. If you see the packaging of almost-everything (apart from food/drinks), chances are that they are made in China (and designed in X-Y-Z country).

I think you might be right. Cars, computers, TVs seem to be big imports. But America does not produce all of it's own rare earth metals so manufacturing some products without also increasing raw material production could be an issue - if our goal is to decrease reliance on other countries.

But America does not produce all of it's own rare earth metals so manufacturing some products without also increasing raw material production could be an issue - if our goal is to decrease reliance on other countries.

We have domestic rare earth metal resources. Right now, we don't mine it here, because it's too expensive to get rid of the resulting Thorium. If there was only a market for that stuff...

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#189

Post by Diederich »

defertoreptar wrote: post #178
kayfox wrote: post #21

So, to encourage manufacturers in the US to build more stuff in the US, they will increase tariffs on components so that it will cost even more to build something in the US than to build it in China. Good plan, hello Canada!

This isn't as much about encouraging the USA to make stuff as it is about IP theft.

Can you expand on that?

Re: White House announces 25 percent tariff on Chinese tech goods

#190

Post by mreome »

rsynnott wrote: post #73
mreome wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn't assemble their devices domestily. This tariff does not include complete phones. I'm sure they are perfectly fine with these tarrifs, they are a barrier for potential competitors who don't already have established supply and assembly facilities in China/Tiwaian.

They assemble Mac Pros in the US. They've also apparently been considering assembling some other stuff in the US; I assume those plans have come to a screeching halt.

Thanks for the clarification. As you say though, this will likely stop further domestic assembly operations from being established. It will be business as usual for the big players who do assembly in China, the rest will be encouraged to move them back there. In no way does this seem like it could have the intended effect.
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