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Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

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Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#181
post #158
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to see why. Without clauses like this, you'd be at the same place you were before, "Either agree to all of our completely invasive and probably unrelated terms, or go pound sand." The GDPR is shifting the balance of power back so that users do have some bargaining, not just the take it or leave it that's been so prevalent for so long.

I think the issue is that it really hasn't been a "take it or leave it" environment in the past years. Things have been done against the interest of user privacy by burying the explanations in long privacy policies filled with legalese, and in the general underhandedness of data exchange between multiple parties. The inability to remove data you've provided to a website, too, I think is problematic in ways. I'm a big…

You lose the power to participate in Facebook-only groups, which are surprisingly prevalent in some places. I have very limited access to two communities here in Montreal that I'd otherwise get a lot of value out of, because their only online communication system is via Facebook.

I've told Facebook to pound sand for roughly their entire existence - never had an account even though I had the chance right after they expand beyond Harvard - and am considering whether life circumstances will increasingly force me (in practical rather than literal terms) to sign up.

A company in that semi-mandatory position deserves lots of binding rules to protect the rights of unwilling users, just as is true for electric companies since you rarely have much choice there.

Plus, I don't think Facebook's massive wall of several huge interlinked policies with soft-pedaled descriptions of what they do meets either of your A and B criteria, especially not when it's modally interrupting the user.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#182
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, they're fairly clear that you can't make service conditional on marketing et al consent. > When assessing whether consent is freely given, utmost account shall be taken of whether, inter alia, the performance of a contract, including the provision of a service, is conditional on consent to the processing of personal data that is not necessary for the performance of that contract.

What if your service requires the tracking?

Required means for example that you need a shipping address to ship a product. Not that you need location data in order to build a profile used for various undeclared, vague purposes - or for an unrelated purpose. I don't use fb in order to watch ads. Fb shows ads on order to finance the service. They can offer a paid option to cover the cost of serving pictures of adorable kittens.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#183
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given their de facto monopoly I'm not sure "There is no legal right to Facebook" is correct anymore. It's sort of like the internet where if you were denied access you'd have a significant disadvantage in society - it could easily be argued that denying access to Facebook gives you a similar disadvantage. At the end of the day this will need to be decided in courts.

Personally, I'd really not like to see a precedent set for a company entering a market, doing very well, and then being legally compelled to provide their product as some sort of legal right to an entire population. It might be a different story if said company is employing anti-competitive practices, but telling somebody that they're now legally obligated to serve a community because they're just too good at what th…

Oh, they're allowed to withdraw from the market, or decouple the privacy-invasive bits and find a way to make that work financially when users don't opt in to those. Nobody's forcing them to serve Europe if they insist on being this awful regarding mandatory tracking. They're free to allow space for a competitor to grow with a different attitude toward privacy.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#184
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know, the GDPR stipulates that you cannot deny people access to you service if they do not opt-in to tracking, unless the service you provide is very specifically a tracking service. Tracking is not the primary service Facebook provides to their users, so the GDPR will not allow them to bar access for users who do not opt-in to being tracked.

I believe the GDPR only forbids denying access to users' data if they don't opt-in (Art. 15), and that's why Facebook has the options to either - accept ToS and use Facebook, or - deny ToS, download user data and delete account (under 'More options'). https://gdpr-info.eu/art-15-gdpr/

No, because this ToS thing is not actually a GDPR-compliant opt-in. It's a routine ToS update, with a few tracking things tacked at the end of it.

Companies have always been able to deny users access if they don't accept a ToS, but clicking "I Accept" to the ToS shown in the screenshots is not a GDPR opt-in, and I cannot stress that enough. It is just a ToS update, which does not cover GDPR-compliant opt-in to tracking. The tracking questions following it are also not GDPR-compliant.

They will have to ask properly for opt-in when the 25th rolls around, or they will face fines for non-compliance.

FB is trying to muddy the waters with this ToS update, probably to fool people into thinking "well, I already accepted a bunch of stuff a couple of weeks ago, I'll just accept this GDPR thing as well". It seems that you've bought in to their misinformation campaign.

The GDPR stipulates that you cannot make access to your service contingent on opting in to tracking, unless you service cannot possibly function without tracking. Strava would be a good example, it cannot possibly work without tracking a user's GPS location.

But FB works just fine with no tracking at all. The only thing that would be compromised is be FB's business model, and that's just tough luck, they'll have to come up with something better, a model that doesn't infringing on people's privacy.

Source: I work for a telco/ISP and we are extremely aware of GDPR and the consequences, and we've been working diligently for ~2 years to make our entire business GDPR-compliant. Training courses and tests of our understanding of the rules are mandatory for everyone, from customer support to CEO.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#185
post #72

Hopefully it will encourage some people to ditch FB.

> Hopefully it will encourage some people to ditch FB. I know my reasons for wanting to ditch FB personally (I'm about 50/50 on that), but I'm curious as to your reasons for wanting others to dump it.

There was a good article about it, but Observer swallowed it.

Here is what remained: https://web.archive.org/web/20151011192709/http://observer.c...

Basically, anyone using it, encourages more people to use it, thus causing further damage.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consent isn't required for data collection that is necessary for the service to work. However, you have to be prepared to defend in court that it IS necessary. As such, trackers in 3rd-party advertising network code probably won't count as necessary; it's necessary for the ad network, but it is not necessary for the website displaying the advertisements, as proven by ad-blockers. Likewise, the facebook like button an…

> but it is not necessary for the website displaying the advertisements, as proven by ad-blockers. when I was a child I stole a toy from Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart is still around. Therefore, Wal-Mart's entire existence as a store does not depend on any kind of anti-theft measures, and it should be illegal for them to film my entrance and exit.

But thats not what facebook is doing. Facebook is tracking your every move between stores, public and private spaces, using that information to infer vast knowledge about your likes, dislikes, sexual orientation, income level, political belief, religion, friends and friends of friends. Seeing who you talk to, how long and about what, and then selling that information to anyone, along with access your newsfeed.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#187

So basically Facebook is saying that if we can’t make money from you, you can’t have an account.

Seems perfectly reasonable, doesn't it?

No, facebook desperately needs to keep users and keep tracking them, so they are abusing network effect monopoly into giving people a choice either accept any tracking facebook wants or lose all the connections and all the time you invested into the platform. Which is not much of a choice, obviously.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about memes pages? that's the only reason I keep my account. Also, I don't even see adds with and Ad-blocker. What are they going to try to sell me, a meme page subscription?

What about memes pages? Memes pages seem like the best reason to delete Facebook.

yeah because fuck having fun right

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#189

It is clear that FB does not plan to be GDPR compliant [1] https://medium.com/@bozhobg/facebook-doesnt-plan-to-be-gdpr-...

Well, they had a chance. It's a bit like the Titanic aiming straight for the iceberg but in this particular case I don't feel sorry.

Re: Facebook now denying access unless EU users opt-in to tracking

#190

Just after that Terms screen I got three real consent screens (including one about ads tracking and one about face recognition). I think this screen is only about the TOS update.

Weird. I only got the facial recognition screen and the "accept ToS or delete your account" one.

I guess the option 'continue to use the service without tracking' was too hard to implement technically. Or maybe nobody thought of that.
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